Choosing between the F50 and D55

adorshki

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Yes, I am a "strummer." And I really appreciate the fine points on the F50/F50R differentiation.
You're welcome!, Guild's modeling system can be a little confusing at first, especially for newcomers. It gets worse when we try to explain that they even changed the model numbers for a while, the "F50" became "JF65" and the F50r became "JF55". SO if you're considering "used", you could add those to your list and they'd be late '80s-'90's Westerly builds.
I notice the arch back is a "laminate" and my mind immediately jumped to the laminate that is found on cheap guitars. But I imagine this is not the case here.
Right. A couple of things to bear in mind: on "cheap guitars" it's the laminated tops that are "tone dampers". Backs and sides don't have anywhere near as much effect on resonance/volume as the top except by their shape, as previously explained.
Guild doesn't know what a laminated top is (except on some archtop jazz boxes, there's your clue for what the steam press was originally used for), and all their flat-top acoustics are always solid tops. (unless I've forgotten an oddball)
In the case of F50's (and D55's) it's always going to be at least AA or AAA sitka spruce (grading itself is actually highly subjetive even at etht afctories. Some folks say Guild's "AA" might well be somebody else's "AAA"). Sides are solid as well on those.

Is it several layers of maple laminated together for strength which is needed because of less bracing on that curved surface?
The outside sheets are (or "were", at least) normally 2 consecutive sheets from a single block sheeted for the purpose by a furniture veneer maker, so their grain patterns are virtually identical. I've actually seen a new member refuse to believe his arched back was laminated because the grain patterns matched inside and outside.
Funny story: When I was new to the brand with my D25, I didn't realize the back was laminated until one day while admiring the grain I realized it was "backwards" on the inside...:laughing:
I was actually impressed since I already knew lamination is an inherently strong construction. A few years later when I joined here one of the guys who used to work in Westerly told me that technically that would have been considered a construction error.
The center sheet is usually something lighter/cheaper, poplar is one I remember being mentioned by Hans Moust.
They're glued up and then steam pressed in that special press.
The strength actually comes from both the lamination of layers and the arch shape itself, the stress gets evenly distributed over the form.
In the same thing that makes it almost impossible to crush an an egg inside your fist.
It's also virtually impervious to cracking from excessive dryness.
In a flatback, the braces actually serve to keep the 2 sides properly lined up (flat), otherwise that glue bond at the center seam and at the sides is all there is.
The inner layer of laminate has virtually no effect on "tone", that's created by the way the sound bounces off the interior surface, whether maple or mahogany, imparting that tonewood's influence on the reflected frequencies.
That might also explain why rosewood is so rare in archbacks, it might be a bit of overkill compared to how it enhances a flatback's reflective characteristics.
Oh by the way, I'd probably be considered primarily a strummer too, but boy an arched back can put a lot of oomph in your scales too!
My F65ce by the way is a very shallow (3" deep) maple archback, more of a mini-jumbo outline. I made an unenhanced living room recording with a buddy who borrowed my D25, I got to play leads "for once".
Played it back for another buddy who asked what I was playing the F65 through (it's an a/e).
He was kinda surprised when I told him it was unplugged.
They're less common than F50's/ D55's but if that size thing is a concern, you might want to keep 'em in mind:
http://westerlyguildguitars.com/guitars/f65ce.html
:wink:
 
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Taylor Martin Guild

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I owned a JF55 which was the same as the F50R and I still have a D55.
As already said, the size of the F50R isn't for everyone. That was one of the reasons that I sold it and got the D55.
The F50R has a full and very balanced sound but it lacked a bit in volume to me.
My D55 is louder than my JF55 was. I needed that because I play with Bluegrass players and the guitar can get lost in the mix.
I also wasn't comfortable playing the JF55 when sitting.
In reality they are both great guitars and you can't go wrong with either one.
 

mavuser

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Thanks for the warmth and the knowledge, all of you.

I live on Vancouver Island. Seems most US dealers won't ship a new Guild up here, I guess to protect foreign distributors?? As a result, I'd probably pay more for one with a Canadian Distributor. In any event, I can't afford a new one, so used it is, and used can be just fine as we all know in instruments.

The local distributor, a chain, seems to have mostly foreign made Guilds in the local store.

Such a shame about the US factory.

Rick


Rick, do they have the (Asian Made) Guild F-150R in your local chain store? That is the one I actually recommend. It is an inch smaller than than the full jumbo (F-50R), but the same shape. My Sam ash has 2, one with a skinny neck and one with a chunky neck. They are both amazing guitars. While many Guild enthusiasts prefer a Guild made in the USA, some of us simply just don't care. Especially an acoustic that has no electronics (to question the integrity of the electronic parts and connections and stuff) . Also I am about the same size as you, I prefer to play standing but when I do sit I have a tough time with dreads. I can play them standing but a jumbo shape, or mini jumbo, seems to sit on my leg perfectly centered if I'm sitting and is perfect standing as well. Again i check out the F-150R if one is available to play. The American vintage version of that size Guild is the rare GF-55 which if you could find one would be a fantastic choice but could get pricey, also those have the very high gloss neck which are tough for me to play. The F-150R has a natural satin finish that is easier for me to play. Probably the most significant fact is, no matter which Guild you purchase...you still live in Vancouver Island!!! Must be a pretty happy camper in that regard. Pretty sure any guitar will do! Cheers!
 

jcwu

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I owned a JF55 which was the same as the F50R and I still have a D55.
As already said, the size of the F50R isn't for everyone. That was one of the reasons that I sold it and got the D55.
The F50R has a full and very balanced sound but it lacked a bit in volume to me.
My D55 is louder than my JF55 was. I needed that because I play with Bluegrass players and the guitar can get lost in the mix.
I also wasn't comfortable playing the JF55 when sitting.
In reality they are both great guitars and you can't go wrong with either one.

TMG's experience matches mine - I own both the DV52 and JV52, a dread and a jumbo. I owned the dread first, and when I got the jumbo, I expected it to be louder than the dread because of the bigger body, but boy was I wrong. The jumbo was not as loud or boomy, but instead had a chorusy chime to it when compared to the dread.

I personally like the jumbo size. It grew on my real fast. It's nice and curvy, I like nice and curvy.
 

Zelja

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So prevailing wisdom is that the D-55 is louder and the F50/F50R more balanced (i.e. less bottom end).? I'm so-o-o-o confused!:confused: People's opinions are no doubt affected by the individual guitars they have tried and not all guitars of the same model will have the same exact characteristics.

Can anyone compare the NH models of these guitars?
 

twocorgis

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The more I read, the more I am starting to lean in the direction of F50/F50R rather than D55, although I get it that both are tremendous. And the enablers here would drink to my health if I bought both. LOL!

Rick

That's the LTG way. :laughing:
 

guildman63

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Oh, Neal! In adoration I fell on my knees in front of that pic you shared. Just beautiful!

And then I found these two oriental fellows playing a duet with a D55 and an F50. Interesting to hear them together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISh2sWSKAz8

Rick

While more than one feel that the dreadnought is louder and more defined, this clip you posted seems to demonstrate the opposite to me, but then I had a Super Twin as a teenager and frequently played with the volume and output at 10 while standing next to the amp, so my ears are not the most reliable. I used to own a JF65 which is the maple jumbo, verses the JF55 which is rosewood (same as F50 and F50R respectively). My JF65 was an absolute canon, and had fantastic note separation. I have owned dreads by Guild and others, and while I am only slightly bigger than you the jumbo feels very comfortable to me, both sitting and standing. I am mostly an electric archtop guy now and have my sites on a vintage 40's - early 50's Epiphone acoustic archtop, which is even bigger than the Guild jumbos, and I am not concerned at all. That said, I currently own a Guild F47M, which is a fantastic guitar, but it is much more subtle and doesn't smack you in the face like my former JF65, and it is much smaller, which I will admit is super comfortable. I will keep this F47M because it is so nice and balanced, but I love the volume and complexity of the big old vintage archtops, and can't wait to pick one up. The F50/JF65 would probably be the one I would go with if I were getting another Guild acoustic, but as many have already stated, the D55 is also a great guitar, and you win regardless of which you choose. Keep us posted!
 

Cypress Knee

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I have owned numerous Guilds over the years, the F50 and F50R, the F 412 and F 512, the D 50, the D 55, and the D 44 maple dred (I had a pearwood too).

Out of all those guitars, if I could only own one, it would be the F50R. I like the rosewood better than maple, and I like the jumbo over the drednaught.

CK
 

vastier

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Well, folks, I took the plunge. I know I said I was leaning toward the F-50 but I couldn't find an affordable used one. I bought the D-55 with DTar. It's a 2011 model sold by Streetsounds in NYC. They lowered the price twice in a week to a point where I just had to say "YES, Damn it. I'll take it!!"

Everyone I know always says never buy a guitar without trying it. But I did it twice with a couple of US made Ovations and was happy both times. Now I'm doing it with the D55 anbd expect that to be a happy story as well.

It's in the mail and I feel like a kid who can't wait for Xmas. LOL!

Thanks for the patient explanations and advice.

Rick
 

SouthernSounds

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I've learnt over the last month that Ovation and NH Guild guitars were built under the same roof in the last few years and by some of the same folks. Besides that, everybody here that has tried a NH Guild has been quite impressed for their quality and sound. So my point is: I'm sure you will be happy with your NH D-55!

Congrats, Rick and remember: pics or it never happened...

All the best,
B.
 

Neal

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Fantastic! Another NH Guild goes to a loving home.

Rocky's Street Sounds, interestingly enough, sold me a New Hartford F-50 a few months ago. I was very satisfied with the way the transaction was conducted. And they have a 14-day return policy if you and the guitar don't see eye to eye. All you have to lose is return shipping if the guitar doesn't speak to you.

But I have a feeling that D-55 will speak loud and clear!

Neal
 

West R Lee

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I've owned a few D55's, a JF55 (F50R) and a JF65 (F50), and my personal experience is the same as one of the above posters. I expected the JF's, being jumbos, to be louder. The D55, at least in my experience is a louder guitar, and also a hell of a lot more comfortable to play. But there is a huge difference between the 2 guitars......the D55 and the F50......one a maple jumbo, the other a rosewood dread. I will say this for the JF65 (F50) I used to have......it was the best straight miked recording guitar I ever owned to my ear.

West
 
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jeffcoop

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Well, folks, I took the plunge. I know I said I was leaning toward the F-50 but I couldn't find an affordable used one. I bought the D-55 with DTar. It's a 2011 model sold by Streetsounds in NYC. They lowered the price twice in a week to a point where I just had to say "YES, Damn it. I'll take it!!"

Everyone I know always says never buy a guitar without trying it. But I did it twice with a couple of US made Ovations and was happy both times. Now I'm doing it with the D55 anbd expect that to be a happy story as well.

It's in the mail and I feel like a kid who can't wait for Xmas. LOL!

Thanks for the patient explanations and advice.

Rick

Congratulations! I bought two Guilds from Street Sounds last year (a new G312 and a "used" Tacoma F40 that was pristine). Both transactions went smoothly, and both guitars are terrific. I would feel confident buying from them again.

I look forward to your report once you've received the D55.
 

fretless

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and now you can take your time finding a good deal on an F50 Blonde! I would highly recommend a '70s model. then you'll have it covered new, old, dread, jumbo, rosewood, and maple. oh and gorgeous!
 

vastier

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Fumbling to upload a picture of this magnificent D55 that arrived a couple of weeks ago. Can't seem to find that function. Anyway ...

I must say that it has a unique sound that I have never heard in any other guitar or other brand before. This is my first Guild so I cannot compare it to other Guilds. I wouldn't know how to describe the sound of this, but it does warm my heart.

The Dtar is a nice addition and I am glad I decided to go for that. When trying to decide on adding a pickup later, someone told me it was like getting after-market air conditioning on your car. It's nowhere near as good as the factory air. He was right. This Dtar is so beautifully faithful in reproducing the sound in its fullness with no altering of any kind.

Guild's manual on the Dtar is a bit sparse for helping me understand the basics of it. It goes into great detail about other technical things I wasn't interested in yet.

Rick
 

guildman63

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Rick,

Congrats on the new guitar! As for pictures, you must first host them on a site like photobucket. Then, you simply copy the link from each photo to your thread here on LTG. Looking forward to seeing those pictures!
 

vastier

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Okay, let's try that upload again.

GitBox009_zps457be109.jpg


and this one:

D55_zpse315ff2d.jpg


Okay SouthernSounds, now it happened.

Rick
 
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