Orpheum vs Martin Authentic

billder99

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Before Orpheum's became available, I have long lusted for a Martin Authentic... Since the introduction of Orpheum, that choice is not so clear. While there are still some Orpheum's out there in inventory, I may buy one now. Have any of you had the opportunity to compare similar body styles in both the Orpheum and the Authentic? I have come into a bit of extra cash, and the time is right.

Also.... does anyone know if Guild Custom Shop will continue building Orpheum guitars? I have seen a range of speculation in posts here on LTG. Will Ref Ferguson be staying with the project?
 
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twocorgis

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Quick question. Which Orpheum, and which Authentic are you talking about? Most of them are two different beasts.
 

SFIV1967

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That's really a difficult question to compare. Lets just look at the specs of some models:

Martin D-28 Authentic 1931: (12 fret slope shoulder Madagascar Rosewood body):
http://www.martinguitar.com/new/item/3272-d-28-authentic-1931.html

Now Guild has only a 12 fret slope shoulder with Mahogany body.
Orpheum Slope Shoulder 12-Fret Mahogany Dreadnought:
http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3872000837#simpleContained4


Martin OM-18 Authentic 1933: (Mahogany body)
http://www.martinguitar.com/new/item/3277-om-18-authentic-1933.html

Guild Orpheum Mahogany Orchestra:
http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3875000821#simpleContained4

Those would be somehow the only two body styles that are somehow similar looking but the specs are different.

Otherwise I can't find how to compare them:
Martin Authentic models: http://www.martinguitar.com/new/itemlist/category/53-golden-era-marquis.html
Guild Orpheum models: http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments/?gtype=acoustics&series=Orpheum®+Series&section=all

Also.... does anyone know if Guild Custom Shop will continue building Orpheum guitars? I have seen a range of speculation in posts here on LTG. Will Ref Ferguson be staying with the project?
I think nobody knows yet.

Ralf
 
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twocorgis

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That's really a difficult question to compare. Lets just look at the specs of some models:

Martin D-28 Authentic 1931: (12 fret slope shoulder Madagascar Rosewood body):
http://www.martinguitar.com/new/item/3272-d-28-authentic-1931.html

Now Guild has only a 12 fret slope shoulder with Mahogany body.
Orpheum Slope Shoulder 12-Fret Mahogany Dreadnought:
http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3872000837#simpleContained4

Apples to oranges here Ralf. True story, I almost ran out of Rudy's in SoHo NYC after playing a D-28 Authentic 1931 at the salesman's suggestion. It might have been the best guitar I've ever played, and I'm a mahogany guy. If I'd have stayed any longer, I would have found a way to sell a kidney or something to buy one at the $6K+ price.

And that's not to take a thing away from the Orpheum Slope Shoulder, which is a superb guitar in its own right.


This is more of a fair comparison, and of these two, the Orpheum wins. I had one here for a while that I thought was the best OM I'd ever played. They're two different guitars, but it's every bit as good as the D-28 Authentic 1931 in its own category in my estimation.
 

billder99

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Quick question. Which Orpheum, and which Authentic are you talking about? Most of them are two different beasts.

I agree, different beasts, but all tone monsters. I suspect I would love any Orpheum or any Authentic (I have only played the D-18A and it was amazing-squared), all way-above-average instruments. I love lightly built instruments with plenty of headroom and dynamic range... if this helps, this guitar will be played with a flatpick, I have good control of dynamics. This opens the door to a lot of choices... I haven't played any Orpheum instruments and I have only online reviews, I am open to DS, OM or Jumbo... for Authentics, I lean to the D-18A or OM-18A, possibly even one of the Custom 0000-18s by Gruhn (Madi/Adi).

I will restate my question... If the tone and playability of the Authentics rises above mere mortal Martins as the fans would have us believe (the oohs and aahs are deafening), does Orpheum in general rise to that level of superlative tone and playability? Do they rise to the same level of sublime gratification?

I am asking this of people who have played both Authentics and Orpheums, people who have an opinion based on experience. Given my intended use, which would you purchase if you had to purchase online without playing first? (PS: I will play before spending this kind of money... no worries)
 
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capo12

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The only thing I can offer that may help you is that I own an Orpheum slope shoulder 12 fretter and you should NOT allow it in your comparison in my opinion. It's an absolutely great instrument but the short scale and 12 fret attachment make it a more specialized instrument (at least so far in its young life Adi being what it is). It's just not an all arounder. Now an Orpheum slope shoulder 14 fretter with the longer scale is a whole other thing to consider and the video I've seen and heard on the Mahogany Orchestra makes me lust for one. If they are really as stellar as my Orpheum they should be in your mix to try. Hope that helps.
 

billder99

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The only thing I can offer that may help you is that I own an Orpheum slope shoulder 12 fretter and you should NOT allow it in your comparison in my opinion.. Hope that helps.

Capo, that does help, thanks very much. I assume you are saying the 12-fret Orpheum (short scale) is more geared to fingerstyle than to melodic rhythm... is that correct? Regarding the OM-18A, the reviews by experience player/owners have been nothing short of stellar, magnificent... does the Orpheum OM fall into the category of superlative? I have been playing solely dread for the last year, but the OM body would work for me just fine... tone is my quest, I am flexible on body size.
 

capo12

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billder99-Just lost my first long reply so I'll keep this shorter: Now that Cordoba is getting Guild and Ren is staying with Fender your original hunch about Orpheum inventory might be determining. But, I believe that Orpheums were Guild's showpiece to the guitar community that they could hang with the best in their price category. My 12 fretter certainly does. Your assumption about the fingerstyle aspect is probably true but I play with a flatpick and I dig it. As a sit-around-and compose-songs guitar it is just plain fun. I just think that a 12 fret slope shoulder guitar is a whole other beast compared to an OM. And a Guild is not a Martin or a Gibson so the tone automatically sits in a mix or an ensemble in a place of it's own. You have a whole lot of fun playing ahead of you to figure out what you want to spend your money on. So yes, I think an Orpheum can hang with a Martin but only you can say if you like how it sounds. Happy hunting!
 

twocorgis

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Why would Ren stay with Fender ??? How do you know?
Ralf

Well, we certainly don't know that yet. I'd speculate that Ren will go back to Montana and not stay with Fender. Maybe he'll start building some under his own name.
 

twocorgis

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I guess Guild Orpheums are about to become very, very rare guitars, don't you think?

Sad as that is, it's probably true. However, if history is any guide, rarity amongst Guilds sure doesn't seem to make them more valuable.
 

capo12

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Don't know for a fact if Ren is staying with Fender, just saw it mentioned amidst the general buzz. I too hope he just goes into private luthiery, but more importantly I hope he (and anyone for that matter) gets to do what he wants to do.
 

twocorgis

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Don't know for a fact if Ren is staying with Fender, just saw it mentioned amidst the general buzz. I too hope he just goes into private luthiery, but more importantly I hope he (and anyone for that matter) gets to do what he wants to do.

I think that Ren has gotten to the position that he can pretty much do whatever he wants to do. Knowing his love of Montana, that would be my best guess.
 

SFIV1967

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I think that Ren has gotten to the position that he can pretty much do whatever he wants to do. Knowing his love of Montana, that would be my best guess.
Sure, but who knows, if Jon Thomas makes him a good offer he might continue doing what he loves out of Oxnard for some years, let's wait and see. He might be a great guy to help starting up Guild there.
Ralf
 

SFIV1967

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Don't know for a fact if Ren is staying with Fender, just saw it mentioned amidst the general buzz.
Well, in that case you should not make a public statement that "Ren is staying with Fender". That is misleading info in that case if you don't know for sure. Hundreds of people read this here and might quote your knowledge on other places...Just my opinion, we should separate truth and rumors. I am just trying to not let false rumors go around.
Ralf
 
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twocorgis

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Sure, but who knows, if Jon Thomas makes him a good offer he might continue doing what he loves out of Oxnard for some years, let's wait and see. He might be a great guy to help starting up Guild there.
Ralf

I hope you're right Ralf, but it's hard to see a guy like Ren living in SoCal. New Hartford was rural enough to be plausible, can't really say the same about Oxnard.
 

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I have an Orpheum 14 fret dreadnaught and it is the best dreadnaught I have ever owned. The only other guitar I have that comes close is a Martin CEO-7 which is a one off of a Gibson L-00. So I guess the two guitars I like best are of Gibson design and made by Guild and Martin and better than any of the Gibsons I ever owned IMHO. Ironic, isn't it? BTW, I have been playing guitar for 50 years and this is my 4th slope shoulder dread over those years. I have also owned some Martins and Gibsons in the past along with two Taylors for a few years in the 1990's but THE dreadnaught for me is this Orpheum 14 fret.
 

twocorgis

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I have an Orpheum 14 fret dreadnaught and it is the best dreadnaught I have ever owned. The only other guitar I have that comes close is a Martin CEO-7 which is a one off of a Gibson L-00. So I guess the two guitars I like best are of Gibson design and made by Guild and Martin and better than any of the Gibsons I ever owned IMHO. Ironic, isn't it? BTW, I have been playing guitar for 50 years and this is my 4th slope shoulder dread over those years. I have also owned some Martins and Gibsons in the past along with two Taylors for a few years in the 1990's but THE dreadnaught for me is this Orpheum 14 fret.

Gotta agree Robbob! It's great to own a Ren Ferguson creation that doesn't say "Gibson" on it.
 
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