It makes me sad to learn about the moving of the Guild/Custom Fender factory out of NH CT. I was at last years Let's Meet Guild Day and was very impressed with the management and employees dedication to the craft of making some of the best acoustic guitars in the world. I have to say the quality of the 10 or so guitars they were making have to rank up there with the best guitars sporting the Guild name. That said, I believe the cost or maintaining the current facility as it, was probably the reason for the closure. As pretty as the building was, there was a ton of wasted space between the wood room to the finishing areas. Even after retooling and creating a better more functional work flow at the factory, there was still a lot of un-used space that needs to be paid for, heated, etc. With the limited number of guitars they are making, I am sure the cost per guitar is probably out of whack. I am sure management can find a smaller space or even incorporate them in another current facility. I honestly do not believe that the quality of the future guitars will be in jeopardy. This current collection of artisans is as good as it gets. Even with certain areas of production being done by CNC machines, you still needed an experienced crafter to finish each guitar, so it can live up to the brand. As for Hamer and Ovation, it might be better to move them offshore. With Ovations construction, I am sure there won't be much of a difference because of the fiberglass/carbon fiber/plastic construction of the backs. Crafting and bracing the tops and necks can be learned and the costs greatly reduced without losing the quality of guitars and their ultimate tone. As for Hamer, they really are a smallish player, so moving them won't be such an issue as Guild and the Fender Custom shop acoustics. So fear not Guild supporters, with a new home, I believe the future will be as bright as the past and present!
New Hartford
- Thread starter workedinwesterly
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fronobulax
Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
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FMIC has not announced where acoustic Guilds will be made and as a consequence none of the existing craftspeople have been publicly offered an opportunity to relocate and continue to build guitars for FMIC. Sadly, because the 46 folks losing their jobs feel like friends, the quality of today's (former) workforce is likely to have little impact on tomorrow's Guilds.
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
NH made much more than 10 different models!
For Guild I count 42 models made in NH as of early 2014. (13 Traditional, 10 Orpheum, 7 Standard, 5 Artist Signature, 4 Resonator, 3 American Patriarch).
And for Fender I count 29 models. (15 Pro Custom, 8 Collector Custom, 6 Master Designed)
So 71 different models were made for Guild and Fender in NH according to the Guild and Fender webpages.
Ralf
No, the number of Guilds they made each day in NH was just 8 to 12 guitars! That's not the number of models they made at the factory. It is really more of a boutique shop than major guitar manufacturer like Martin or Taylor.
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
Oh, so that was a misunderstanding on my side, I thought you talk about the number of models. Yes, 3000-3500 per year.
Ralf
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I was shocked at how few guitars they actually make in NH. I was also amazed at how long they took to sand down and taper the necks for a couple the Fender Customs. They spent an incredible amount of time, more than I believe Martin or Taylor would do. Making a guitar takes a lot of hands and Guild makes sure those hands spend as much time as needed to make a better guitar. One thing I will say is that my Westerly D-50 is so much heavier than my similar Martins. But it plays like jelly and has a ton of tone and projection.
fretless
Member
well crap
fretless
Member
did fender ever make a decent acoustic guitar?
JohnW63
Enlightened Member
And there you would be wrong. It takes a LOT of time to build those guitars and a lot of the tone comes from the bracing and materials used. How they are made in Asia is NOT the same and the difference can be seen and heard. I suspect all that will happen is the off shore, low cost, guitars will continue, and all the top end ones will no longer be made anywhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWB22iSrD98
fronobulax
Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
- Joined
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From the Moderator: If you are saying that the specs of the Ovations made in Asia are different specs than those made in New Hartford then that is fine. If you are saying that one set of specs is inherently of lower quality than the other than that is fine, but if you are suggesting that the specs are the same and the execution (i.e. quality of the instrument as built to the same specs) is different then that is not fine. If anyone doesn't understand the distinction that I am trying to make, then might I suggest we just stop discussing Asian Ovations on a Guild Board, even if there was a factory in common.
JohnW63
Enlightened Member
From what I have read, and been told by rather versed Ovation aficionados, the specs of the Asian versions have been simplified for faster, cheaper, production. Things like dropping the bolt on neck for a glue on. Details in the bracing. Quality of the top wood. Neck construction, etc. The things that make the nice USA Ovations really nice, are time consuming and cost money. Some Adamas have very thin wood sandwiched between layers of carbon fiber, for instance. Because I have played one for so long, and I am striving to learn all I can about them, I fully admit to taking umbrage at someone suggesting " they're just plastic backed guitars, so they can be made anywhere ".
It has nothing to do with the ability of Asian factories being ABLE or skilled enough to make a very nice guitar. What it's about is that the whole point of the guitars made over seas, for Ovation, was to make them cheaper and quicker and not necessarily for making them just like they do in New Hartford. They needed to be able to compete on price points not on highest quality.
A perfect analogy may be the GAD Guild line. They look and sound like a USA Guild, but not as good. I think most here would agree that a GAD guitar is a nice sounding and playing guitar, but... if you really want the full package of sound and feel and build quality, you need to get a USA guitar. I suspect Guild wanted an entry level guitar that gets people into the brand, at a much lower price, but then get them to move up to the better quality line. I think it was working.
I believe that was the goal of Ovation, when they started their line of Celebrity and Applause lines, made in Asia. In my opinion, that didn't work quite right. So many people got their hands ONLY on the low cost, most often shallow body, stage use only, plywood topped, Ovations that they got a poor opinion of the brand and thought they ALL would sound like that. How many other brands have various body depths to the extent that Ovation does ? Guild had that one thin line guitar that Eva Cassidy played, but how many people didn't get the idea that it was only for plugged in , stage use ? Ovation didn't make that distinction very loud. It hurt the brand instead of growing it. Other views may vary.
I hope that clears up my point of view.
It has nothing to do with the ability of Asian factories being ABLE or skilled enough to make a very nice guitar. What it's about is that the whole point of the guitars made over seas, for Ovation, was to make them cheaper and quicker and not necessarily for making them just like they do in New Hartford. They needed to be able to compete on price points not on highest quality.
A perfect analogy may be the GAD Guild line. They look and sound like a USA Guild, but not as good. I think most here would agree that a GAD guitar is a nice sounding and playing guitar, but... if you really want the full package of sound and feel and build quality, you need to get a USA guitar. I suspect Guild wanted an entry level guitar that gets people into the brand, at a much lower price, but then get them to move up to the better quality line. I think it was working.
I believe that was the goal of Ovation, when they started their line of Celebrity and Applause lines, made in Asia. In my opinion, that didn't work quite right. So many people got their hands ONLY on the low cost, most often shallow body, stage use only, plywood topped, Ovations that they got a poor opinion of the brand and thought they ALL would sound like that. How many other brands have various body depths to the extent that Ovation does ? Guild had that one thin line guitar that Eva Cassidy played, but how many people didn't get the idea that it was only for plugged in , stage use ? Ovation didn't make that distinction very loud. It hurt the brand instead of growing it. Other views may vary.
I hope that clears up my point of view.
adorshki
Reverential Member
I got it. Made sense to me and was insightful about the brand I wasn't so familiar with.
"wink"
Guild Dawg
Member
The MBAs of the world ruin everything ...
