Fender to close New Hartford operations

spiderman · Apr 28, 2014

Can't say I was surprised, actually I was, expected it to happen several years ago. No current dealers in town, though one shop was one until the New Hartford move. Only American made Guild they had was a decent D-50 for a number of years before it sold. A few GADs, those moved. Competition in the guitar business is very strong. Don't think there will be an increase in price for used, simply no brand recognition out there. Very unfortunate all around, especially for me since I remember when the big three were Martin, Gibson and Guild.
I feel for the workers, having devoted their time and energy to creating a wonderful product, and to be dumped on relatively short notice is shameful. Good luck guys and gals....

Harmony H-173 bought in 1960 (retired), Alvarez AC60S 2008, Eastman AC320ce 2009 "Hybrid", Guild D25M 1974 (all mahogany, archback), Martin Grand J35E 2009, Martin D12-20 1970, Martin OM-21 2009, Martin 00-15M Custom (full body gloss, wide neck) 2011, Martin 00-15M Custom (12 fret, wide neck, solid peghead) 2012, Voyage-air VAOM-06 2010
"One chord is plenty, two and you're pushing it, three is jazz"
Lou Reed

fronobulax · Apr 29, 2014

Westerly Wood said:
Good point. Is arcos line considered above GAD?

Let's see what I stir up after three days without reading the rest of the thread.

I thought that price wise Arcos fit between GAD and NH with some slight overlap. When Guild restructured their dealer agreements so that a dealer got to pick which factory produced the instruments the dealer stocked, my local dealer dropped GAD and kept Arcos and NH (and Newark Street). He said that in this market (affluent, suburban, somewhat untouched by economic troubles) he could not sell GADs but the Arcos models were flying out the door. He was very careful to make the point that it was not an issue with quality as much as competition at the price point. he had other brands that competed with GADs that sold much better, but he had nothing that competed with the Arcos.

H.P. · Apr 30, 2014

No major maker has the long-term reputation of Guild in the building of wonderful-sounding 12-string guitars. I would like to see any new incarnation of Guild build on the acclaim rightly given to their 12-strings. If only we had some new hero of the stature of John Denver/Roger McGuinn/Gordon Lightfoot to step forward playing an F-512. . .

tommym · Apr 30, 2014

H.P. said:
No major maker has the long-term reputation of Guild in the building of wonderful-sounding 12-string guitars. I would like to see any new incarnation of Guild build on the acclaim rightly given to their 12-strings. If only we had some new hero of the stature of John Denver/Roger McGuinn/Gordon Lightfoot to step forward playing an F-512. . .

I always wondered why John Denver stopped playing Guild guitars.....

Tommy

Default · Apr 30, 2014

H.P. said:
No major maker has the long-term reputation of Guild in the building of wonderful-sounding 12-string guitars. I would like to see any new incarnation of Guild build on the acclaim rightly given to their 12-strings. If only we had some new hero of the stature of John Denver/Roger McGuinn/Gordon Lightfoot to step forward playing an F-512. . .

Greenwoods · Apr 30, 2014

Interesting post by a newbie over on the Ovation Forum. Very well said ...

http://ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=37759

SFIV1967 · Apr 30, 2014

H.P. said:
If only we had some new hero of the stature of John Denver/Roger McGuinn/Gordon Lightfoot to step forward playing an F-512. . .

Brian May plays since many years F-412 and F-512 guitars and still does as of April 2014.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a62EHWik3yw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1WhrtlNSCc

And I love that Roger Hodgson still does, his sound with the F-512 is brilliant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnhRP6XALMw

Ralf

Watasha · Apr 30, 2014

Westerly Wood said:
That is because they haven't done arched back us D25s. Had they kept the arched D25 in the US line, might be different story.

You may be right. That said, you'd most likely be talking about a couple grand difference in the price too.

JohnW63 · May 1, 2014

Ya gotta' have a D-55. It's an iconic Guild. If it's the best selling model, that emphasizes keeping it.

Other than that, fill the price points that they can compete well in. You don't need a LOT of models to have " a guitar for everyone. " Just off the top of my head, that means the 3 digit ( GAD ) versions for under $1000. Real Guilds for over $1000, but you have to be realistic on the MSRP in that range. People have a BIG list of possible guitars in the $1000-$3000 price tag market. Note what makers and models will be direct competition and get the price right. What other models would I suggest in that range ? I don't know them well enough. But, reducing the NUMBER of models makes it less costly and increasing the volume of less models makes more money. At least that's what my lame, consumer, logical, brain tells me. If you want something else , there is the Custom Shop ready to build ANYTHING you want.

adorshki · May 1, 2014

JohnW63 said:
At least that's what my lame, consumer, logical, brain tells me. If you want something else , there is the Custom Shop ready to build ANYTHING you want.

Actually that wasn't true in NH, with a Guild Badge. Don't know about the Fenders
Smallest run they would consider for special specs was 20, and those had to be specs that didn't require special tooling.
SO, I could not order my "Pipe Dream" F30R arched back with enclosed tuners, short scale, and 1-11/16 nut.
At last report they wanted to get to that stage of "custom orders" but still couldn't cost-justify it.

JohnW63 · May 1, 2014

Well, if I was elected Guild King, you COULD have ordered what you wanted. Just be prepared to pay me for wild stuff.

fronobulax · May 2, 2014

JohnW63 said:
Well, if I was elected Guild King, you COULD have ordered what you wanted. Just be prepared to pay me for wild stuff.

The LMG discussions of "custom shop" focused on allowing the customer to mix and match things that the factory was already doing. So the ultimate vision - which was never implemented - would have been something like a menu where you would choose your top and back wood; choose the side wood; choose a bracing style they already produced; chose a neck and profile they already produced; grab bling and slap it all together. The reason they did not get there yet is because they had to have some kind of way to track and quality control ordering and building such a beast. Developing such a system is not Rocket Science but it required effort that Guild had not allocated or expended. Anything that required reprogramming the CNC machines was a non-starter unless they were going to make multiple instruments (i.e. GSR). If they were willing to reprogram to make 20 GSRs that listed for $5K then that is $100,000 MSRP so it is a justifiable SWAG to guess that reprogramming a CNC machine and adjusting the remaining assembly processes cost between $30,000 and $50,000. If I were going to spend that kind of money on a single acoustic guitar I'd probably spend it with a luither who was going to hand build and personally manage every step of the process.

Contrast this with Burger "Have it Your Way" King where leaving off the lettuce probably saves them money.

twocorgis · May 2, 2014

fronobulax said:
The LMG discussions of "custom shop" focused on allowing the customer to mix and match things that the factory was already doing. So the ultimate vision - which was never implemented - would have been something like a menu where you would choose your top and back wood; choose the side wood; choose a bracing style they already produced; chose a neck and profile they already produced; grab bling and slap it all together. The reason they did not get there yet is because they had to have some kind of way to track and quality control ordering and building such a beast. Developing such a system is not Rocket Science but it required effort that Guild had not allocated or expended. Anything that required reprogramming the CNC machines was a non-starter unless they were going to make multiple instruments (i.e. GSR). If they were willing to reprogram to make 20 GSRs that listed for $5K then that is $100,000 MSRP so it is a justifiable SWAG to guess that reprogramming a CNC machine and adjusting the remaining assembly processes cost between $30,000 and $50,000. If I were going to spend that kind of money on a single acoustic guitar I'd probably spend it with a luither who was going to hand build and personally manage every step of the process.

Contrast this with Burger "Have it Your Way" King where leaving off the lettuce probably saves them money.

Probably something very close to what Martin does. And if I were going to spend really big bucks on a custom, I'd head right over to Dana Bourgeois.

Fender to close New Hartford operations

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