Played a Newark St SFIII and a '61 SFIII Today

Was in NYC to get my passport renewed today and stumbled across Rudy's Music in SoHo. They had two Newark Street Guilds and a 1963 (I think) Starfire III. They had a Sewark St. X-175, but I didn't play it.

http://soho.rudysmusic.com/Electric/Guild.html (vintage Guild is not on their site)

I didn't plug any of them in since I was short on time (and there was another guy wanking away on every hackneyed 70s and 80s song you've ever heard in a guitar store - even Stairway), but the guy practically begged me to plug in so I could enjoy the mini hums on the '63. It was almost comical, but I told him I couldn't because if I did, I'd buy it, and I couldn't. His response was, "Ahh, so you know about them".

That was my first time handling a 60's Guild, and this one looked to be in excellent shape. I think the price was about $2k. It even had a metal switch tip. The neck seemed a tad better to me than any 70s Starfire I've played, but it was still on the small side.

I have to say that I was impressed by the Newark Street Guilds. They had a SFIII and an M-75. I've never been impressed with Korean-made guitars in the past, but these felt and played beautifully, and I'm a hard-core Westerly snob. I was impressed at how light the M-75 was, too. Lighter than any Bluesbird I've played, but I guess the M-75 is hollow where the Bluesbirds were chambered. The only thing I didn't like about them was the open-gear tuners and the plastic switch tips. Oh, and the prices. If these import guitars are $1000, then that '63 should be $30,000. If I can get a Westerly for the price of a Newark St., or maybe a little more, I likely wouldn't buy the Newark St. Of course I've never known a company to price its wares based on the used price of it's old models.

Still, it's great to have another option. As time goes on, Westerlies will be harder and harder to come by in mint condition. I went in with the idea that they would compare to Korean Epiphones I've owned (and disliked), and was pleasantly surprised.

Old news to everyone but me, I'm sure, but I just had to share.

Watch out around Hoboken Guilds, or you'll become a Hoboken snob. They rule.

As for the Newark street Guilds, I'm incredibly impressed myself - so impressed I have an X175 on order. (and that's saying a lot - I have two Hoboken ones, and very nice ones at that...) I don't think they're expensive at all - don't forget you get a really nice case with them. And it's obvious they were modeled on the Hoboken Guilds, and very well - and that's that for the Westerly comparison IMO : you can get a Westerly SF for not much more, but they're almost entirely different guitars to my hands and ears. (and eyes..)

All comes down to personal taste and the music you plan to play on them of course, but for my purposes, the Newark St. 175 will be a better backup for my Hobokens than a Westerly one - I have no use for humbuckers, and I wouldn't feel that great about hacking up a Westerly Guild to put a pair of single coil pickups of my liking om them.

Yeah, I guess for me Guilds have always been Westerlies because that's what I grew up with. My main beef with the older Guilds is always the necks - they're too small for my hands - even the 70s Westerlies.

My pricing complaint was part "I could get a Westerly for that" and part "I'm constantly surprised vintage Guilds don't fetch more".

Really, though, I can buy a Fender American Standard Strat for $1249 from GC, while the Mexican model is less than half of that and the Asian import model is generally half of that (~$250). Somehow I feel like I'm getting an Asian import guitar for a US-made price, but that's skewed by my being used to used Westerly prices.

Of course that's probably got a lot to do with my American view of the world which is hard to unlearn. I'm a hypocrite, though, because I have a Japanese-made Gretsch (Setzer SSLVO) that's better than any US-made Gretsch I've ever played, and it was way beyond "US-Made" prices.

Your point about the case is well-taken. I've had to shell out hundreds for import guitars that didn't come with a case. That definitely alters my view of the value.

GAD said:

Really, though, I can buy a Fender American Standard Strat for $1249 from GC, while the Mexican model is less than half of that and the Asian import model is generally half of that (~$250). Somehow I feel like I'm getting an Asian import guitar for a US-made price, but that's skewed by my being used to used Westerly prices.

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Well, yes, and you're comparing brand new pricing to second hand pricing of course - Westerly guitars weren't all thàt cheap when new.

And a Chinese or Korean strat is built to a price point - a different price point than a Newark St. Guild - as in "a different quality price point". You can almost have a robot build a strat, not that simple with an archtop, there's that too.

Electric, and steel string acoustic guitars are traditionally American instruments - I'm born and raised in Belgium, and I still think of "a really nice guitar" as "made in the USA" too, so your thinking isn't as US-centric as you might suspect.

And I think Korea, as far as guitars go, might be well on the way to becoming "the new Japan" as far as quality goes. Heck, I've played some Chinese made Eastman guitars that were downright impressively nice guitars no matter where they were made.

GAD said:

Really, though, I can buy a Fender American Standard Strat for $1249 from GC, while the Mexican model is less than half of that and the Asian import model is generally half of that (~$250). Somehow I feel like I'm getting an Asian import guitar for a US-made price, but that's skewed by my being used to used Westerly prices.

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I can see your point, but I don’t think that dynamic really applies to something like an Aristocrat. It’s a design that’s being basically revived from the dead. That means tooling, molds, new (old) pickup R&D, actual wood (as opposed to the multi-piece mystery material that’s under the pretty paint on a lot of Asian Fenders), and seemingly higher quality control. Westerly models don’t even share the same body shapes as the Hoboken years.

You’re not paying for an Asian copy of a mass produced guitar with lots of generic, off-the-shelf parts available already. Even the Guildsby had to be tooled.

I have owned Guilds from Hoboken, Westerly, Corona, and Korean and the MIK ones compare very favorably in every way. I think the prices are quite fair.

Just to beat a dead horse- Westerly and Hoboken Starfires are (IMHO) two entirely different guitars for different playing styles. I have both. They look different, feel different and play different.

All I know is I like the way all of them look, and wish I could go to town on one, no matter where it was made. The differences in the pickups are hard to hear, if you just read about them, and don't know what to listen for. It seems the amps and stop boxes are a big part of the finished sound, so to my untrained ears, it's hard to appreciate. I wish there was an A/B/C of the three most common pickups used with the same gear plugged into it.

High quality audio samples would be nice. I don't have an HB-1 Or SD-1 Starfire III, unfortunately. I think I would be interested in a T-100 or DeArmond Starfire first.

JohnW63 said:

All I know is I like the way all of them look, and wish I could go to town on one, no matter where it was made. The differences in the pickups are hard to hear, if you just read about them, and don't know what to listen for. It seems the amps and stop boxes are a big part of the finished sound, so to my untrained ears, it's hard to appreciate. I wish there was an A/B/C of the three most common pickups used with the same gear plugged into it.

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I'd love to do something like that, but it would be complicated. In order to really make it work, the three pickup types would have to be swapped out of the same guitar, otherwise the differences could be attributed to the guitar and not the pickups. Not only that, but pickups can sound very different with only slight differences in height, so each set would have to be dialed into its sweet spot. If one set wasn't dialed in as well as the others, it would skew the results.

Still, it could be a fun project.

Hi GAD,
Nice story here!

Was the 63' Guild in cherry finish?
I'm looking for a 63/65 (circa) Starfire III with mini hums, but I'd like to find one in a (original) finish other than cherry. ;-)

jmix said:

Hi GAD,
Nice story here!

Was the 63' Guild in cherry finish?
I'm looking for a 63/65 (circa) Starfire III with mini hums, but I'd like to find one in a (original) finish other than cherry. ;-)

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I want to say yes, but I only had four hours sleep the night before and I'm afraid I can't remember. My brain still hurts.

You can call or email them and ask directly, though.

212 625 2557 - info@rudysmusic.com.