M-65 with two pickups

nmiller

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I came across a fairly unique Guild yesterday: a 1970 M-65 (full-scale) with an all-maple body and two "Mickey Mouse" pickups. My prior experiences with these pickups left me cold, but this guitar sounded amazing (and pretty different from anything else in my collection). I put down a deposit and agreed to pay it off within 30 days; pics will definitely come once I pick it up. The guitar raised a few questions, as did my conversation with the salesman:

  • I was surprised to see that the label did not have any "DP" or "Spec." designation. I assume this means that the guitar was sent back to the factory to have the bridge pickup installed and they never updated the label. Anyone concur or disagree?
  • I was unaware that the M-65 ever came with a maple back. This guitar's back has a beautiful flame as well. A bit of online searching came up with only one other all-maple M-65, with similarly flamed wood. The salesman told me that it became an option once the model became part of the Studio series. My questions are: 1) when did this happen, 2) was it ever cataloged (I can't find it anywhere), and 3) what exactly did it mean to become part of the Studio series (aside from the ST-XXX models)?
  • The guitar's neck profile was quite different from any late '60s or '70s Guild I've played. It felt wider and thinner, somewhere in between a Guild and a Mosrite neck. Did the M-65 normally have a different profile than, say, my '69 ST-402 or my '72 M-75?
  • The bridge pickup is wound in reverse, so that when the two are combined they cancel out hum. Is this normal for guitars with two Mickey Mouse units? I know it wasn't normal for Franz-equipped guitars.
  • The salesman also told me that late '60s Hoboken guitars have 3-ply maple tops while Westerly guitars have 4-ply maple tops. This is because the metal molds at Hoboken were old and thin, and Westerly used new, stiffer ones. Hoboken still used 4-ply spruce because the wood was easier to bend. Does all of this sound correct or at least reasonable?
  • He also said that the Westerly factory bought much of its neck-shaping machinery from Magnatone. The timing works, as Magnatone stopped building guitars around 1967. I'm a big Magnatone fan, and am curious if anyone can verify this.
Thanks for any info you guys can provide.
 
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SFIV1967

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I only know there were 2 pickup versions and also all Maple versions. Here's a 1970 (?) all maple with one pickup (S/N ED 449).
Hans can for sure tell you more about your guitar beyond what he has written about the M-65 models in his book.

$T2eC16RHJHcFFkB!wvffBSUfPd,tig~~60_58.JPG


Ralf
 
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Default

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I've never heard anything about Magnatone and Guild in all my years of raging fanboism, Noah. Your salesman had a lotof interesting things to say. Did he have any connection to Guild?
 

nmiller

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Yeah, a Magnatone connection would be news to me as well, especially since their guitars were built in California. I'm not sure if he had a direct connection to Guild, but his shop is in Westerly so it's possible he heard all this from a former Guild employee.
 

nmiller

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Paid it off & picked it up today! The tuners are replacements, but they're actually Guild tuners from later in the '70s. Perhaps they were put on when the bridge pickup was added. It's definitely the most jangly Guild I've ever played, almost heading into Rickenbacker territory. Not much sustain compared to my '72 M-75G or the '60 Aristocrat I used to have, but a great rhythm guitar sound.

Click for bigger versions:



 

walrus

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Wow! That's in really great shape! Beautiful grain on the back - congratulations!

walrus
 

Ohjay

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Lovely guitar!
It looks really good in sunburst and with two pickups!

On a smallish sidenote, but still on topic, I own an all-maple M-65, maybe even the one Ralf referenced, I haven't memorized the serial. The previous owner is a member here. That guitar also has a rosewood headstock veneer, something I've been told is quite rare when it comes to Guild. I find it interesting to note that both of these M-65's are all-maple and have that rosewood veneer... Maybe Hans has more to say on the subject?

As for my M-65, I've been meaning to put up an NGD for weeks now, I'll get around to it eventually :happy:
 

Zelja

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What a lovely example. Gorgeous burst. Really interested to one day play a guitar equipped with those pickups.
 

cc_mac

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Congratulations! That's a beautiful guitar. Since it sounds different than other MM equipped Guilds maybe it's worth pulling the pickups to see if the caps have clipped.
 

Zelja

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Congratulations! That's a beautiful guitar. Since it sounds different than other MM equipped Guilds maybe it's worth pulling the pickups to see if the caps have clipped.
Pics I've seen on a recent auction indicate the cap is wired across the ground & hot wire of the pickup, so the cap would send some highs to ground when in circuit. So clipping the cap should cause a brighter sound than when the cap is left alone. Can anyone verify this?

Pic below:
$_57.JPG



On another auction the DC resistance is measured at 8.9k, P90 territory but the contruction looks more like a strat pickup - I'm guessing the pickup poles are the magnets themselves (rather than having two bar magnets either side of metal screws as per a P90 or a Franz PU). Makes me think these would sound like hot strat PUs, but obviously there's a lot of factors involved. Once again, can anyone verify the poles are in fact the magnets & give a ballpark idea of what common pickups these are most akin to?
 

nmiller

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I'm not sure that it sounds substantially different from other MM-equipped Guilds. It sounds pretty similar to T-100D videos on Youtube.

I did buy it from Frets, actually from a guy working there (he might be the owner, I'm not sure). They usually have a few unique Guilds on consignment. I was also considering a maple jumbo acoustic that looked like a one-off, probably a personal instrument by a Guild employee.
 

The Guilds of Grot

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That guitar also has a rosewood headstock veneer, something I've been told is quite rare when it comes to Guild.
Not really rare at all. They did it a lot in the late 60's, early 70's.


1969 M-65 3/4:

rt013.jpg



1969 M-65:

100_6403.jpg




1972 A-50:

M-85011.jpg


M-85010.jpg
 
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nmiller

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I went the lazy route and stuck a mirror in the body. I could only see the bridge pickup, but the cap is original and still connected.
 
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