Major Newbie Alert: Starfire III vs IV discussion

OnFallowGround

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The journey to a Starfire IV (Now with pictures!)

Hello soon-to-be-friends,

I'm ashamed it's taken me this long to find you all, but I hope to be an active member of the community as time goes on. You see, I recently stumbled across the magical mystery world of Guild electric guitars. I sold a tele deluxe that I had grown bored with and was on the hunt for something different. My musical love has recently been dirty folk/blues/jazz types and I needed a guitar that could give me some of that smokey sound. Something warm that wasn't afraid to growl a little.

Somehow in my ignorance, I thought all I would need to do was track down a hollow body that looked purty enough, and it would do the rest. Through a lot of reading and Youtube watching, I went ahead and purchased a brand new Gret*h 5420. The moment I sat down with it I knew something wasn't right. It was honkey tonk city. With enough wrestling and castrating I could get it to mellow out a bit, but for the most part it was a twangbox that annoyed me to no end. The build quality was impressive, and the form factor seemed to be right up my alley, but something about that tone profile was like a drill in my skull.

A guitar player by the name of Oliver Wood (of the Wood Brothers) has long impressed me, so I hunted down that he plays a vintage Guild t100 that he is rather fond of. I decided to study up on Guilds. My dad had a Guild acoustic when I was little, and it was the first guitar I learned on. Here I am 29 years seasoned thinking that Guild was that lame brand my dad had, only to be stunned by their dynamics. The video I saw was this:



... and that's all it took. That's the tone. I had to have one. I've spent the last month or so reading everything I could about the Starfires, the differences between each version, the differences from decade to decade... the preference of the Westerly versions over their counterparts. I was as stumped as you all when I saw that recent Starfire IV from the 60s with a volume knob (I thought they didn't arrive til the 70s!).

OKAY OKAY, long story short... I have a guitar dealer who can get me insane deals on the new Newark St Starfires. Brand new, with case, professionally set up, not B stock, etc for a price I haven't even seen used on eBay. So I told him to get me a IV. His rep from Fender says the new run won't be done for another 30 to 60 days. I said put in the order.

Here's the dilemma- He has a III in stock. I'm not sure why I got the IV in my head; maybe it's the simple prevalence of the version compared to the III, but in my head, I needed a IV. But 60+ days without a guitar?! BLECH. Suddenly, that Guildsby is looking all the more appealing.

So convince me one way or another- Tonally, will I notice much of a difference between the III and the IV? How much does a center block shape the sound? This feedback issue everyone talks about... is it still as present in the Newark St line, and how much of an issue is it anyway?

Of course, none of this will matter when I inevitably trade up/down for a vintage Starfire in the not-so-distant future, but humor me. If I don't care all that much about a Bigsby, which way do I go? Thanks in advance, and thanks for letting me hang with y'all. I look forward to joining you for years of financial ruin and sweet harmonic bliss. [/longest thread ever]
 
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Los Angeles

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It's my experience that starfire III's and Starfire IV's are very different in tone. There are a lot of reasons for this:

Starfire 3's are fully hollow with single cutaway that meets the body at the 14th fret.
Stafire 4's are semi-hollow with double cutaway that meets the body at the 16th or 18th fret. (depending on the year)

The different eras of these instruments actually differ quite a lot due to the pickups as well. If the sound you're looking for is from a 1997 Starfire 3, then those guitars had a run of Seymore Duncan "SD-1" pickups in them. That's probably what we are hearing in the video. The sound from those pickups is different from what you would get from a 60's Starfire 3 with Guild mini humbuckers (which were recently reissued) or a 70's Starfire 3 with Guild HB1 pickups (my personal favorite).

Also note that the man playing in the video is playing a maple bodied starfire 3. Through the years, some were maple and some were mahogany. and the different wood might change the tone a bit.

Now, here's where it gets interesting: you can look for a Starfire 2 - it's the same body as the stafire 3 but with a harp shaped "fixed" tailpiece instead of a bigsby style tremolo, they are not as common, so it might take a little longer to find one from 1997. But I think it will be worth it.
 
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OnFallowGround

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It's my experience that starfire III's and Starfire IV's are very different in tone. There are a lot of reasons for this:

Starfire 3's are fully hollow with single cutaway that meets the body at the 14th fret.
Stafire 4's are semi-hollow with double cutaway that meets the body at the 16th or 18th fret. (depending on the year)

The different eras of these instruments actually differ quite a lot due to the pickups as well. If the sound you're looking for is from a 1997 Starfire 3, then those guitars had a run of Seymore Duncan "SD-1" pickups in them. That's probably what we are hearing in the video. The sound from those pickups is different from what you would get from a 60's Starfire 3 with Guild mini humbuckers (which were recently reissued) or a 70's Starfire 3 with Guild HB1 pickups (my personal favorite).

Also note that the man playing in the video is playing a maple bodied starfire 3. Through the years, some were maple and some were mahogany. and the different wood might change the tone a bit.

Now, here's where it gets interesting: you can look for a Starfire 2 - it's the same body as the stafire 3 but with a harp shaped "fixed" tailpiece instead of a bigsby style tremolo, they are not as common, so it might take a little longer to find one from 1997. But I think it will be worth it.

So what you're saying is... I'm doomed to a life of endless searching and chronic dissatisfaction?

I suppose it could be worse.

If anybody is in the market for a Newark St, I'd love to trade + cash! I'll keep you all posted with how the science experiment goes.
 

walrus

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Welcome! I would recommend you try all of the Starfire variations, and see what you think. But as LA said, there are variations within those variations! You'll know when you find the one that;s right for you.

walrus
 

GAD

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Hey there! Welcome to LTG.

I've owned 'em all, as have many hear.

LA nailed it. Also, SFIIs and IIIs are very (VERY) light guitars, while SF IVs are heavier.

Tone, as it has been said, is in the fingers. Hardware certainly has an impact, though. I would bet that the reason you didn't like the Gretsch is the pickups. The 5420 is an Electromtic with "black top filtertrons" that are advertised to deliver "knockout punch and phenomenal twang". Pickup type has a pretty big impact on tone. I have a Gretsch 6120 (Setzer SSLVO) that I love - for playing Brian Setzer stuff.

The Starfires that you've listed (at least the modern ones) come with humbuckers. I haven't played a Newark Street, so I can't comment on their quality or sound. I prefer the 90's models.

The feedback concern with a III is real, but it a) really seems to depend on the guitar, b) can greatly depend on volume and position relative to the amp, and c) is easily controlled with practice.

As was said earlier, the wood used to make the guitar really has a huge effect on the tone. Maple guitars sound very different than Mahogany guitars. Lastly, they're not really the same size and shape, either. Here's an old picture of my Starfire 4, X-170T, and Starfire 3. If the III you're looking has that deep reddish color to it, it may very well be mahogany. I love Mahogany Starfires because of the dark, sexy tone, which is great for blues. I love the maple Starfires because they "bite" more, making them great for rock and blues. My favorite of them all is the Starfire on the left (which now sports real Guild knobs for all of you ready to mock me), which has a maple body and a mahogany neck. Best of both worlds!

Three-SFs-800.jpg
 

OnFallowGround

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I've clearly come to the right place. Thanks everybody.

Is there a distinctive way to tell when/where a Starfire was made without the serial number? Specifically, a blonde/natural reissued III? I've found one on Craigslist that seems like an incredible deal. I haven't seen many of the III's in blonde so I'm wondering if this is a dead giveaway that "Oh, that's clearly a 90's one made in the US."

Similarly, how can I tell what wood a used guitar is made of without it being in my hands? Can I look that up by serial number as well? I would assume that if it's maple, it will have the quilted look, and the more natural look is mahogany. Is that a fair assessment?

Fingers crossed! If I score this one on Craigslist, I'll do a side by side comparison of (what I presume to be) a 90's model vs a Newark St.
 

Pine Apple Slim

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You bought the wrong Gretsch. Shoulda got a cheaper used 5120 with "Gretschbuckers". Much darker traditional humbucker tone. You can make them twang a little bit with some ht and pole piece tweaking, but still way more Gibsony than Gretschy. People yanked Gretschbuckers out of 5120s right and left so they can be had for cheap on the bay. Not sure if they fit the new 5420 cavities tho.

As far as Guild goes, sry I can't help you. I have the Newark St Bass and LOVE it, but havn't played any of the guitars. They sure are purdy tho.

edt: Just looked the specs over on the NS SFIII. Mahogany neck, lam hog B&S, lam maple top, Guild buckers. Should get ya where you wanna go. Enjoy.
 
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OnFallowGround

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Oh guys, what have I done?

I went Craigslist hunting this morning, and found a mint 1993 Starfire IV in sunburst... SO I ordered it. Note, I already ordered the Newark St Starfire III. So, now I can compare the two! I'll post pics/videos as soon as they both come in.
 
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OFG,

I have the NS SF IV, and I'm not even thinking about doing anything to it, it's that good (OK, maybe file the nut slightly, but that's it!). Was thinking about getting a III, but Sweetwater didn't have one in stock. Either way, I don't think you'll be dissapointed-my SF IV can cover a LOT of ground, musically, and I'm very glad I got it!

Franc Robert
 

JohnW63

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You could send me the one you DON'T like as much for a late Christmas present. :)

I don't have any Guild electrics, so I am feeling left out.... You don't want me to feel that way, during the holidays, do you ?


( Anyone think this is going to work ? )
 

GAD

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I would be willing to bet that that '93 will have HB1s in it and will smoke anything made today. My '94 had HB1s in it, and it was a stellar guitar. The '94 was a little thinner than the late '90s models, but it was still a stellar guitar. This one looks fantastic (as far as I can see from the small pics)!

Also, $1000? For a mint '93 SF4? That is a great price!

00t0t_lK3AmUI1dgU_600x450.jpg
 
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Default

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Agreed! Sounds like a deal to me! To be honest, the NS Starfire is much, much different than my Westerly's -it is very close to my Hoboken, so it looks like you are going to have two very tasty additions to your tone menu!
 

Zelja

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Oh guys, what have I done?

I went Craigslist hunting this morning, and found a mint 1993 Starfire IV in sunburst... SO I ordered it. Note, I already ordered the Newark St Starfire III. So, now I can compare the two! I'll post pics/videos as soon as they both come in.
You've absolutely done the right thing! :untroubled: The two guitars will be quite different due to different construction & pickups & will fill different niches.

Old new England saying - "Two guilds are better than one", so rest easy.

The SFIV is a steal, especially if it has HB-1s (& as GAD said, that is very likely). Congrats, you've done well!
 

OnFallowGround

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Well thanks guys. I can't wait. I feel good about the purchase. The superstitious part of me is trying to figure out which song/lick I'm going to play on them first.

Unfortunately, there's no way my budget can support me having both in my inventory right now, so I'll be selling one... likely the Newark Street model, but we'll see!
 

Smitch

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Hey OFG, I live 20 minutes from this store in KC and would be happy to take a look at it if you'd like.
 
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