Does this count as bellying?

iWood

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
And is it something to be concerned about?

Questions for those who've observed more Guilds than I have, for longer.

I can't remember if it's always been this way...I mean, I've never set a ruler against it like this, and to my fingers there's always been a small "rise" below the bridge, which is right behind the yardstick, mostly centered at the 19" (or 61") mark. I don't have another Guild 12 hanging around to compare it with, but I had my old Tak EN12C-12 dread out the other day, and thought that its top seemed a bit flatter than this one...which made me wonder whether this is actually normal or not. The bottom edge of the bridge is tight, not the slightest gap.

f412.jpg


Potentially relevant things: 2009 New Hartford F-412, always strung with light gauge strings, usually tuned down a half step, and I'm about 5 miles from the Santa Barbara coast, where average humidity is around 70%.

Thanks for looking!
 
Last edited:

JohnW63

Enlightened Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2012
Messages
6,293
Reaction score
2,217
Location
Southern California
Guild Total
4
I think you will ALWAYS have some sort of rise, right about there, due to the tension of the strings pulling on the top. A bit of outward bow is better than dead flat, I've been told.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
And is it something to be concerned about?
On my screen at least I think the angle and lens foreshortening effect exaggerate its appearance, make it look worse than it really is. I think we could appraise it more successfullly from a little farther away so the foreshortening effect doesn't distort it as much.
A little rise at the back side of the bridge is normal, it's been discussed many times. Also, in general, "flat tops" themselves aren't truly flat, they've got a very slight radius.
You might want to check that there's not an excessive dip starting around the soundhole, that's probably a better indicator of the start of a problem. Otherwise, light strings and 70% humidity are both good. Well, 70% is a tad high but that's better than too dry as long as it's not also too hot, then glue could get soft, start to "creep".
One thing we do always suggest is getting cheap Home Depot rulers planed for accurate straightness, they're notoriously wavy...





(yeah that was a joke)
 

iWood

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
On my screen at least I think the angle and lens foreshortening effect exaggerate its appearance, make it look worse than it really is. I think we could appraise it more successfullly from a little farther away so the foreshortening effect doesn't distort it as much.

Looking at it again, yeah, the angle of the shot does kind of make it look worse. In fact, I think I got more alarmed by the photo than by running my fingers over the "rise." So, I measured. More or less. Eyeballed, by squinting at calipers while holding the ruler straightish, the center of the soundboard below the bridge is about 5mm higher than the edge of the soundboard at the binding. It's symmetrical, and everything from the top of the bridge, over the soundhole, and beyond is absolutely flat.

Which seems all right. I remembered, too, that around 2003 my Tak had a bridge reglue and a...I'm not sure what to call what he did, but there are pegs holding that sucker down now, so even if it's supposed to have a bit of a bow, it won't, ever.

And: I bought one of those Ronco Headstock Shaver/Ruler Planers off TV years ago, to maintain my extensive collection of rulers. So no worries, there!
 

dapmdave

Enlightened Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,612
Reaction score
24
Unless specs have changed since 2009, your guitar was made with a 30' radius top. So it never was flat from the "get go".
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
So, I measured. More or less. Eyeballed, by squinting at calipers while holding the ruler straightish, the center of the soundboard below the bridge is about 5mm higher than the edge of the soundboard at the binding. It's symmetrical, and everything from the top of the bridge, over the soundhole, and beyond is absolutely flat.
Seriously, I've never actually seen a height measurement like that offered before but I applaud the effort! Ideally a couple of other guys'll be able to offer their input to help and they'll be close enough to cement your peace of mind in place.
I'm thinking Chazmo and Charliea as a couple of NH 12er owners. You might want to pm 'em if they doen'ts ee this, and I'm not yankin' yer chain, the guys around here are very dedicated and friendly about that kind of stuff.

And: I bought one of those Ronco Headstock Shaver/Ruler Planers off TV years ago, to maintain my extensive collection of rulers. So no worries, there!
OMG the Holy Grail of ruler collectors everywhere!!
You're the first guy I ever heard of who actually had one!
25,000 known to have been made and shipped via the US Mail and they were all were thought to have mysteriously disappeared!!
Please, please, pics?
 

iWood

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
Unless specs have changed since 2009, your guitar was made with a 30' radius top. So it never was flat from the "get go".

Ah-ha! Excellent.

Basically: one of those "Hey...was this always like this?" moments.

Next guitar I will pay close attention from the get-go.
 
Last edited:

charliea

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
1,328
Reaction score
1
Location
Way South, Florida
Next time you change strings, try that ruler thing with no tension on the top. I bet it'll look about the same. And for the record, does that thing both slice and dice?
 

iWood

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
Update!

(For them's that cares!)

I took the 412 to my guy to get a pickup installed, and I asked him to peek inside, mirror-wise, juuuust to check the braces. Sure enough: one of the braces on the 1st-string side of the bridge has lifted, ever so slightly.

So, it's not bellied...but I just *knew* that something wasn't right about it. Last night I spent some time lightly running my fingers over the soundboard below the bridge (what, you don't do that?), and there was this tiny thing, next to the bridge, that didn't feel quite the same as the equivalent area on the opposite side of the bridge. My guy called it a "ripple," and it's there because of a roughly 1/32" gap between the soundboard and the center of the brace.

Easy enough to fix - bit of glue massage and a night in the clamp* - but it's a good lesson: listen to your instincts, and listen to your guitar...sometimes it tells you things without making a sound.


*What happens in the shop stays in the shop.
 
Last edited:

dapmdave

Enlightened Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,612
Reaction score
24
I had something similar in my D-40. You may find that it'll take a while for the deformation in the top to respond to the repaired brace.
 

iWood

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
I had something similar in my D-40. You may find that it'll take a while for the deformation in the top to respond to the repaired brace.

I'll keep that in mind.

How old was your D-40 when that happened? Just curious.

LATER:

Ha! I see you answered that in the Serial Number thread before I asked.

Soooo they're both New Hartfords, July 2009. Hmmmm.
 
Last edited:

dapmdave

Enlightened Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,612
Reaction score
24
I'll keep that in mind.

How old was your D-40 when that happened? Just curious.

LATER:

Ha! I see you answered that in the Serial Number thread before I asked.

Soooo they're both New Hartfords, July 2009. Hmmmm.

It was that way when I got it but I had it repaired under warranty. A year or so later, the top deformation has been very slowly going away, but is still visible if you look at it just right.

I have'nt verified it, but I think this had to be one of the first D-40s made at New Hartford.

And BTW, it's an awesome guitar.
 

iWood

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
Yeah, mine is as well...that's why I'm not actually bent out of shape about the brace. It'll get fixed, and be even better.
 
Top