F-412 players! Aftermarket pickup/pre-amp recommendations?

Christopher Cozad

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I run Digital Performer on a Mac mini that dates back to 2005. It works fine...
DP remains my favorite DAW, though recently I have been using Tracktion extensively due primarily to it's simplicity (I have a recent model Mac and am not constrained by the hardware - I am very familiar with the issues, and they can be be challenging).

It's my understanding that an undersaddle transducer won't be as fussy that way.
It (the UST) won't be...but it won't reproduce your acoustic sound any "better" than the magnetic...just "differently". It may save you you a dollar or two on the string purchase, so if you multiply the potential savings by the number of times and frequency you will actually swap out your strings you should be able to compute how long it will take you to pay off the investment in the pickup exchange. {smile}

...the Aura's for pickups only.
And it likes UST's. (Parenthetical aside: I plugged a Rainsong (100% carbon fiber - 0% wood guitar) with an L.R. Baggs Anthem pickup into an Aura 16 that I had set up with a recording of my Guild F-50R. My wife did a (classic) double-take and exclaimed, "Wait a minute! I thought that was the Guild! That sounds just like the Guild!". She would know, as she has listened to it for three decades.)

I congratulate you on your efforts to overcome the extraneous noise you are hearing from your recordings. You will be rewarded.

Christopher
 
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iWood

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DP remains my favorite DAW, though recently I have been using Tracktion extensively due primarily to it's simplicity

Mine too. And yet...it's like the red-headed stepchild of DAWs. It seems that whenever I come across a list of DAWs - for tips-n-tricks features, or intro-to-home-recording, stuff like that - DP gets left out. Pro Tools, Cubase, Reason...no DP. It's odd.

It (the UST) won't be...but it won't reproduce your acoustic sound any "better" than the magnetic...just "differently". It may save you you a dollar or two on the string purchase...

That's why I really want to hear the D-TAR in person...if it blows me away, I'll happily surrender my Fishman setup for a D-TAR/Solstice setup. I do heavily process my signal - you can see my boxes here - but I lack a good option for an unprocessed, amplified acoustic sound - not so much a pure, good-as-mic'd sound, just a "different" clean sound that I like. I can't have every song sound like a Cocteau Twins track, that'd get boring for me and everyone else.

A UST, by the way, would actually cost me more in strings...because then 'll be able to justify the Thomastiks, or Pearse silk-and-steels, without having to worry about whether the magnets will like them. :)

(Parenthetical aside: I plugged a Rainsong (100% carbon fiber - 0% wood guitar) with an L.R. Baggs Anthem pickup into an Aura 16 that I had set up with a recording of my Guild F-50R.

Ooooo a Rainsong JM3000 is at the top of my wish list (a sacrilege here, perhaps)...like the D-TAR, I'm still trying to get in a room with one. Leo Kottke once mentioned that it's a great pickup platform, and unless I hate its sound I can see it as a good, stable choice for a performance/touring setup. (Of course...I have to actually be performing more than once a decade before that makes any kind of sense...maybe inherit some money...get some talent...that sort of thing.)

I congratulate you on your efforts to overcome the extraneous noise you are hearing from your recordings. You will be rewarded.

I hope so. I'm in that "My playing has plateaued, but from here I can see alllll the big and little stuff I don't know how to do yet" place. I'm slowly accepting the fact that this will always be true.
 
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crank

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I recommend the new K&K Pure Mini for 12 string guitars.

I'm leaning this way for my new F-412 which has the maple arched back. I have a K&K Mini in my maple arched back G-37 and love the sound. I remember the first time I plugged it into my band's PA and the singer said, "Holy #### that sounds ####### great!"
 

idealassets

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Ooooo a Rainsong JM3000 is at the top of my wish list (a sacrilege here, perhaps)...like the D-TAR, I'm still trying to get in a room with one. Leo Kottke once mentioned that it's a great pickup platform, and unless I hate its sound I can see it as a good, stable choice for a performance/touring setup. (Of course...I have to actually be performing more than once a decade before that makes any kind of sense...maybe inherit some money...get some talent...that sort of thing.)
Do you have a source for anything on Leo Kottke's sound system. I saw him in Traverse City, MI last September and he was quiet about anything pertaining to electronics.

As part of his humor, when his 12 string guitar would not tune, he stated "Oh yeh, why didn't I remember, I have this THING when all else fails". He was pointing to a digital tuner on the floor. I wondered- Just a tuner? OK then where is all the other stuff?

I did relish seeing his playing up close, and hope to get a chance again. And also want to figure out what pickup's and electronic devices he uses.

Craig
 
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iWood

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iWood

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And IN OTHER NEWS. I finally decided on going with the Matrix Infinity. 1) well, you know, the money thing...if I went with another option, I'd have to get a new pre-amp too (because I'd just have to), which leads to 2) I've already got the Spectrum Aura DI, and this way I'll be able to say I've given that whole setup a fair shot...I'm sure it won't be terrible, and it'll be better than the Rare Earth Blend.

Thanks for all of the input, folks...now I have a lot more information for when I (inevitably) decide to mess with my setup again...
 
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charliea

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I notice that Kottke doesn't say he's after a "natural" sound, or one that sounds like his unamplified guitar. He just wants a sound he likes. And a setup that sounds good in venue A will stink in venue B. Amen to all of that. Another good argument for variable sound modeling. I've always wondered why Kottke's name is never linked to Guild. I'm aware that, for some time at least, he's been on Taylor's payroll. But before that, why not? I think maybe it's that Guild has a very balanced sound, and that's not what Kottke wants. Listen to him, and his sound is heavily biased toward bass. No ring, to speak of. The LKSM is notoriously bass heavy. Personally I like a 12-string to ring and chime, and sometimes sound like a mandolin on steroids. Each to his own. That's how Bob Taylor sells guitars with bolt-on necks and poly finishes for the kind of money he gets.
 

iWood

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I've always wondered why Kottke's name is never linked to Guild. I'm aware that, for some time at least, he's been on Taylor's payroll. But before that, why not? I think maybe it's that Guild has a very balanced sound, and that's not what Kottke wants. Listen to him, and his sound is heavily biased toward bass. No ring, to speak of. The LKSM is notoriously bass heavy. Personally I like a 12-string to ring and chime, and sometimes sound like a mandolin on steroids.

I think you're probably right. He's said the he tunes down to C# because otherwise you "might as well play a mandolin." He recorded "6- and 12-string Guitar" on a Gibson B-45...I met an old blues guy in town here who mentioned he knew Leo back when he was playing Bozo Podunavac 12-strings (and later found this). After that he played rosewood Olson 6s and 12s for awhile.

That said: here are some bootleg tracks from St. Paul, MN in 1968 where the sound guy claims he was playing a Guild 12. I dunno, though...doesn't sound like it to me, and I've never found any other mention of him on one.
 

idealassets

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So far I listened to 8 Miles High, and it is conceivable that it was a Guild Mahogany body guitar there. Regardless that is some great stuff and I plan to listen to the rest of those early recordings later.

I can understand what Leo was looking for in his sound, pertaining to going with Guild or not. I can't quite imagine a guild sound like Brian May in "39" or Roger Hogsdon in "Give A Little Bit". Both those songs have some great Guild ring to them. But the signatures of those songs is different from Leo's fast fingerpicking. Regardless I would be elated to ever hear Leo Kottke play a recent model Guild 12 string.

I saw Queen do "39" at Saginaw Civic Center in about 1976. I walked out thinking what an amazing roots sound Brian May achieved on that song. He may have played it on an Ovation 12 string then, I don't recall, I really didn't know enough about guitars back then.

Thanks again for the links to the early Kottke songs. I'm into it.

Craig
 

charliea

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My 212XLCE is tuned to "C" with mediums, and it sounds just like the 8 Miles High cut (which is also "C"). Could definitely be a Guild. My playing doesn't sound like the cut, of course. Actually, I like my 8 Miles High as much as Kottke's version, but I can't make it work tuned that low. I do kind of an arpeggio rather than individual notes, and I just can't get the effect with those big, thudding strings. It's interesting to see where he's coming from, anyway. I'll listen to the rest if I can ever get them to open. That one took several tries and many minutes of waiting. Don't know what the problem is.
 
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