Early Starfire II's (modified)

zizala

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Hello all....

Its been awhile since I posted about a new old Guild.

I've found a 1960 early Starfire......here it is sitting to the right of my '61.
Forgive the grainy looking photo....tried for the natural light and not so good....



The '61 is a great guitar.......when I acquired it I was told the black topped DeArmonds came from a 50's Gretsch DuoJet.
I like it the way it is....whether the Gretsch version or the Guild DeArmond's with white bobbins differ in any way I have no idea.
Don't care really....this guitar sounds excellent the way it is.

But this '60 with the odd wine colored finish is another story.....first off......the price was worth the risk.
It needed some cleanup and setup....was out of circulation for awhile. The original old Gretsch case it came in might likely be worth a good deal of what I paid.

The best I can figure is that somewhere along the way....probably a long time ago, someone oversprayed a dark transparent tint over what was originally a cherry finish over maple. Someone did not like cherry red!
Its a thin finish, old and checked, and has some blotchyness too. I'm sure the person that did this was not an expert with a spray gun. Or perhaps it looked pretty good until the tint faded over time revealing the unevenness.
Beyond the mystery of the unfortunate finish, the hardware and harness are original, but the switch tip was swapped for a black one.

This guitar has an exceptonial sound and feel.....its so fine to play, I can live with the funky finish.....it looks good in low light!
(this coming from someone that has always been obsessed with originality)

The real story is the old DeArmond pickups as were used on a number of early Starfires. From some research and observations, its based on the same design as seen on the DeArmond 210 soundhole pickups for acoustic guitars, but in a different frame. These things sound fantastic.
The '61 with the more commonly seen Gretsch DeArmonds has always been one of my favorites and still is, but this '60 with these pickups while in the same neighborhood for color and sound, have note to note clarity and balance that really stands out.
For whatever reason, the sound of these pickups in the blend position is more useful to me on this guitar, not so much "ice pick" on the bridge pickup.

Other things worth pointing out......The '60 has a maple body with a thinner top......the '61 is mahogany with a much thicker top.
The '60 is more prone to feedback with that thin top, but its manageable.
I've set these both up with wooden bridges.....I prefer the sound of strings contacting the wood saddles to the original Adjustomatics.

One can easily see how Guild built these first Starfires by modifying the T-100 model. This one is essentially a T-100 with DeArmonds.

Lots of fun....

z
 
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gilded

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I like the way DeArmond soundhole pickups sound, so that must be a way cool guitar!

Tell us more about your amps when you have time. That stuff under covers in background is stirring my curiosity!

gilded
 

Default

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AARRRRGGGHHH!

I want one of those in the worst way, but I need a house first!
 

zizala

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gilded.....

The amps in the photo are a 1970 Princeton Reverb and '55 Gibson GA-20.
The two under cover are '46 Gibson BR-3 and '55 Guild MasterAmp 66.
There are others out of sight stage left......but maybe should save these and those for another topic!

Default.....

Hello.....glad you've checked in.....and I must reply with empathy.......

AARRRRGGGHHH!

I need to stop buying guitars (and amps) and get a house too!!

z
 

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Speaking of argh, that $100 buck amp is working now. Still needs some tweaking to sound it's best, but still sounds good!
 

walrus

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Nice pair! Don't worry about the finish - it's all about the sound!

walrus
 

hansmoust

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The best I can figure is that somewhere along the way....probably a long time ago, someone oversprayed a dark transparent tint over what was originally a cherry finish over maple. Someone did not like cherry red!
Its a thin finish, old and checked, and has some blotchyness too. I'm sure the person that did this was not an expert with a spray gun. Or perhaps it looked pretty good until the tint faded over time revealing the unevenness.

Hello zizala,

Looked at the photo and I'm not convinced that the finish color is not original. I obviously did not see the guitar up-close so I might be missing something, but if there is some 'blotchyness' to the finish, would it be possible that a previous owner oversprayed the original finish with a clear coat?
The reason I'm saying that is because it would be a lot of work taping off the original bindings so they would not be finished or scrape the bindings later to remove the darker finish. Scraping finish off the bindings is a highly specialized job that requires a lot of practice. If the edge of the colored finish on the bindings looks even, I would say that the guitar was probably not refinished with a different color and the dark finish may be original.

The second reason I'm thinking in that direction is because I've seen some darker finished Starfires from that particular period and this could be one too!

Looking forward to seeing some good quality close-up photos.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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zizala

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Thanks all for the comments......

Hans......

I appreciate your help and interest in this and will send some detail photos.

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that my assessment about the finish is close to correct.....the top binding looks to have been masked off but not perfectly...it shows some overspray coverage in places where the edge of the masking is not perfectly aligned. Also the little rounded "escutcheon pin" heads that are in the top to mark the zero position on the tone and volume knobs are coated with the overspray as well....these show as bare brass on guitars with original finishes.

For awhile I had the idea that Guild might have oversprayed an existing finished guitar at the factory....perhaps working the cherry red Starfire idea in development.
But thats a big stretch and wishful thinking....I think Guild would have done a better job of it.

Anyway, I'm happy with it.......I love oddball guitars.

z
 

hansmoust

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.....the top binding looks to have been masked off but not perfectly...it shows some overspray coverage in places where the edge of the masking is not perfectly aligned. Also the little rounded "escutcheon pin" heads that are in the top to mark the zero position on the tone and volume knobs are coated with the overspray as well....these show as bare brass on guitars with original finishes.

Those are the obvious giveaways when looking at a possible refinished guitar. No reason to think about it any longer!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

zizala

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Yes Hans......

Thanks....in the end no amount of my tendency towards mind bending activity and projecting far-fetched scenarios can alter the truth.......its fun anyway.

So.....I've moved on to the practice of just playing this guitar.
What a novel idea......

Needs frets......thats up next.

z
 

littlesongs

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Regardless of the cosmetic details, that is a beautiful pair of instruments. Thanks for sharing them with us.
 

mbrindell

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Hi Ziz, A beautiful pair. Other than the finish on the 1960 it is basically the same guitar as my 1958 T100B special which Hans confirmed as original. I agree with your assessment of the pickups. They do blend very nicely indeed. Congrats on that find and at that price. Now lets see the X175 and the story behind it! MB
 
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