What is the general consensus

On a 60s Starfire 4 with mini humbuckers, no master volume, and the neck set at the 16th fret...

vs

A later SF4 with HB1s, a master volume , and neck set at the 18th fret?


all opinions welcome! Cheers

Deciding between the two sounds like a nice problem to have. They are somewhat different guitars in terms of tone, and of course the accessibility to the upper frets will be slightly different. To me a master volume is nice, but not critical. As primarily a jazzer these days, I do not need to get way up to the upper frets with any regularity, so that would not be a consideration for me. Deciding which pickups have a better tone for my taste would be my main concern. If I could try them both first then I could make an educated decision on all points. Not being able to do that would kind of make it a crap shoot. Perhaps I would get whichever was most different from what I already have. On the other-hand, I have an X-500 with HB-1's that sounds as good as any arch-top I have ever played, so I know those pups are nice. I have never played a Starfire with the anti-hum (mini pups), but I have played an X-175 with those pups, and I loved them! I can't say one pup is better than the other, but in my opinion the mini's are a little brighter and with a little less output, kind of in between the HB-1 and Franz pups. I know this puts me on the fence. I suppose I would get the 60's Starfire with the condition of each being similar, and mainly because I have the HB-1's on an X-500, and I will soon have the new Franz pups on the new X-500. I hope that is helpful :very_drunk:

There's a theory I've heard that the stiffer neck in the 16th fret models result in a livelier acoustic response in the guitar (IIRC). With all the other differences in tone which can occur between guitars of exact same make/build, you may need a very large sample size to prove that conclusively one way or another. Still the construction ought to make some differences in response though which one you prefer will still be subjective. I think kslam may have more to offer on that side of things.

Re pickups, I think the mini-hums on the 60s SFs, have a less mids, a tighter low end & more "snap" than the venerable HB-1s. A more of a single coil type response. Both pickups are great though (perfect combo for me might be a HB-1 in the bridge & a mini-hum in the neck position). The only sensible choice is to buy both & live with them for a bit to see what you prefer.:encouragement:

I'd buy the later Starfire, and even more lean towards the late 70's/early 80's. HB1s get plenty edgy, but can fatten up into a rich molasses. In my opinion, it's the more versatile instrument and you can show up to any session or gig with it and make due. Rock, blues, jazz, noise, punk, even metal. That guitar will do just about anything!

The really great irony is that the one thing it can't do is sound like a 60's guild starfire. If THAT's the sound you want, you can't get it from anything other than an original or a (carefully selected) recent reissue.

As you can see by my signature, If getting more than one is an option, that's the option you really should choose.

Thanks guys great info all around. Absolutely the "why choose" attitude is the way to go, and just get more than one, but there are so many different models and configurations of starfires and other guitars with HB 1s and mini 60s pickups, that I would still be curious of the consensus even if I were getting 2.

i was looking into something earlier that turned out falling thru/to be too good to be true..a 66...
but the responses here are great so good has come of it. And maybe another forum member got it?

i see alot of the mini Humbucker/60s SF3s out there. The 4 seems to go either way. Just an observation.

one musician I know has a SF 2. Looks like 70s and HB1s but I'm not positive. Funny though, "molasses" is how his sound is commonly described. I will get a video of him on the SF2 soon. (Tony Scheer).

i like the idea of the neck set at the 18th fret, but even at the 16th with the double cut, that allows for some nice upper access.