1998 Guild D30 Possible Neck Reset?

plba1126

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Hi everyone,

So I picked up this sweet D30 today. Neck is straight (from what I can tell), action and intonation are good. Plays real nice with great tone. One thing that's bothering me is that the saddle is pretty much at it's lowest point. Also, the bridge and fretboard are not level (I read that this may require a neck adjustment). The guy I got it from said he got it new from Guitar Center (he had the tags still in the case) and did not make any adjustments on it besides the truss rod from time to time. I like how it plays, but i'm just worried that these issues that I notice now might turn into a bigger problem for me in the future. So my questions to all you LTGers are:

1. Judging by the pics and the info I provided below, is a neck reset required?
2. If so, is it worth having it done and how much do those typically cost?

I really like the guitar but these potential issues make a worry. If you need any other info please let me know! Thanks in advance!





Image links in case the others don't work
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b...1F45CB-26209-000012B445AA67F5_zps4075b783.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b...4D8E99-26209-000012B44D3C8463_zps8ea2240c.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b...362C3B-26209-000012B455D16AA8_zps1e834ff6.jpg
 

plba1126

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I just realized that the last picture makes the action look really high, so the 2nd pic is what you should reference more
 

davismanLV

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Difficult to tell from photos alone. Based on the photos, it looks like if the action is high and the saddle is that low, you might need a neck reset. Here's a link that will help you. Do the straight edge test. If it falls lower than the top of the bridge you're probably in neck reset territory. Do the test.

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html
 

plba1126

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Thanks for the link! The thing is the action is pretty good in my opinion. But when info the straight edge test the fretboard does fall lower than the bridge. I'm pretty sure it'll need a reset in the future, but I'm just wondering if it's something I can wait on since its playable right now.
 

dapmdave

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Measurements and guidelines are fine, but if you're happy with the action and the sound of the guitar, then leave it alone. It's your guitar and it only has to please you, right?

Around here, a reset on a Guild can run to $500 or more, depending on what you have done along with it. We're fortunate that LTG's own "fixit" is available locally. In many areas it's hard to find a luthier to do a neck reset on a Guild, because of the way they're constructed.

Is it worth it? It depends on you. A reset will improve the playability and tone.

My own opinion: I'd sit on it for a while and decide if you really want to invest more money into the guitar. If you plan on keeping it forever, then it's probably worth it. But if resale is a possibility, then maybe not. D-30s are great (I have one too) but they aren't a particularly valuable guitar, even in top condition. It depends on what you have invested already.
 

Taylor Martin Guild

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Have it looked at by a good guitar Tech.
Then you will know if the neck is good or not.

One thing that some people are doing to put off a neck reset is to have the bridge shaved.
This will lower the action and allow for a taller saddle.
It isn't a permanent solution but it does buy you some time before a reset is needed.
 

GardMan

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That saddle is pretty low, but the action does not look that bad... you have the ruler against the fret board itself... usually you measure from the top of the 12th fret. So it looks like it is under 4/32"... somewhere between 3/32" and 4/32". A couple things you might do:

How is the relief? Capo the guitar at the first fret, and then fret it at the 14th. there should only be a small gap at the 7th fret between the string and the top of the fret... maybe 0.006-0.012"... or less than the diameter of the high e. If the gap is much larger, you may want to tighten the truss to straighten the neck a bit. Go slowly... 1/4 turn at a time. Straightening the neck may also lower the action, allowing you to use a taller saddle.

If you are uncomfortable making these sorts of adjustments, take/send it to a tech who can set it up for you...

Another measure to get better break angle of the strings over the saddle is to cut small notches or "ramps" in front of the bridge pins (see here). Again... a tech could do this for you.

These aren't expensive adjustments... even making a new saddle and/or ramping the bridge would likely be <$100. And, they could be all you need to avoid a reset for many years.

Enjoy your D-30!
 

plba1126

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dapmdave- That's kind of along the line that I was thinking. I like it, but concerned that it might get worse over time. The action at the 12th fret is at 3mm from top of the fret to bottom of the low E string, so from my understanding it's right at the cusp of being high (corrections welcomed).
 

plba1126

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GardMan- Excellent suggestion! I might be able to do that.

The action at the 12th fret is 3mm or 3/32" according to an online converter
 

dapmdave

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dapmdave- That's kind of along the line that I was thinking. I like it, but concerned that it might get worse over time. The action at the 12th fret is at 3mm from top of the fret to bottom of the low E string, so from my understanding it's right at the cusp of being high (corrections welcomed).

Well, you can almost bet that it will get worse with time. But how much worse and over how much time? Being "on the cusp of being high" means different things to different people. Kind of like alcohol. I may be "on the cusp of being high" after one drink, but it might mean 3 drinks for you. I say play it a for a few months and pay more attention to how you like the sound and feel, rather than obsessing over little black marks on a metal rule.

And GardMan has it right, as well. There's a number of little things you can do, and even if you take it to someone it won't be expensive.
 

GardMan

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There are so many little adjusts that can make a big difference... my DV-73 is a case in point.

When I received it, the saddle looked like that on your D-30, and the action was way over 1/8" at the 12th (my stomach dropped when I opened the case and saw it). However, the first thing I saw was that the relief was WAY high (can't remember the number... 0.1" instead of 0.006"?). Moreover, the nut slots were cut way low... I think someone messed up the nut (creating buzz), loosened the truss to get rid of the buzz (thereby raising the action), and then sanded down the saddle to lower the action down. Basically a cascading of errors...

By correcting the nut and relief (now ~0.007), we (Fixit) were able to almost double the saddle height, vastly improving the break angle. The action is just a little high (~0.115,I'd prefer 0.105 ), but it is very playable, and we decided not to reset the neck right now. It might be a couple years, it might be 20 years... we'll see. I don't do a lot of playing on the upper frets, so it plays easily and sounds great right now.

Anyway... adjust it yourself or have a good tech look at it. But, if it's playing well and you like its tone, don't loose sleep over what might happen in 5-10 years. When the time to reset it comes, it comes. Good luck, and enjoy your D-30!
 

adorshki

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dapmdave- That's kind of along the line that I was thinking. I like it, but concerned that it might get worse over time. The action at the 12th fret is at 3mm from top of the fret to bottom of the low E string, so from my understanding it's right at the cusp of being high (corrections welcomed).
In fact Guild's published set-up spec was 6-6.5/64ths (it was published in inches). (4.5-5/64" on the treble E) (note 3/32 does equal 6/64 just in case it was getting by you, but some players consider that to be "high" :wink:)
I see you did mention "from top of fret" because in that first pic it looks like the ruler's on the fretboard.
I have great faith in that build era as I have a late '96 D25 BUT I always used the factory-spec'd light strings (.012-.053)
If it was strung with mediums or even heavys that might explain the neck angle going a bit sour. Also, we've had reliable reports of as much as 1/8" of "misalignment" of the fretboard and bridge as being within build tolerance on earlier (70's-'80''s) Westerlys. (all of mine were and are still perfectly aligned though)
My '25 (in fact all of mine) came at the factory set-up spec and I always stick to it, it's perfect for my range of technique.
 

plba1126

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Also, we've had reliable reports of as much as 1/8" of "misalignment" of the fretboard and bridge as being within build tolerance on earlier (70's-'80''s) Westerlys.

Interesting.... I wonder if that's what happened to mine...
 

plba1126

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But, if it's playing well and you like its tone, don't loose sleep over what might happen in 5-10 years. When the time to reset it comes, it comes. Good luck, and enjoy your D-30!

That's a great point right there! Thanks, GardMan!
 
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My D50 is similar. The action is PERFECT. I heart it. Bit she is completely out of saddle. I have had the guitar for two years now. I am beginning to realize that she will play like this for a long time. Let sleeping dogs lie. If it ain't broke fix it -- meaning that if we like the way our guitars play -- then play them and stop worrying....
 

Fixit

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Fixit here, Lot's great information! The best way to check the relief is to capo the first fret, and with your right hand fret the 20th or the 14th if you happen to have a 14th fret hump, (common problem) Use your left hand to push on the strings about the 8th fret and see how much space between the frets and the strings. How low you can get the relief without buzzes depends on a few things, the condition of the frets (worn or divots) and uneven frets (high or low spots) If any of those conditions exist a fret leveling re-crowning and polishing job may be needed. If you need to do that, don't address the nut slot issue until after the leveling job. If the slots were low they may not be afterward. You can adjust the relief to the desired height and then see where you might be able to get the saddle height up to. If after all of that, If you can't get a desired action with an acceptable break angle, it will be reset time. The action on your guitar is not too bad now, very close to factory (which is a bit higher than I like it) but very acceptable to a lot of folks. It all depends on your playing style, and what you are use too. The suggested treatments for your guitar very well may keep you happy for years to come. I am not fond of bridge shaving usually, a little bit isn't bad, but I have seen too many cases where it has been taken too far and begins to affect the tone due to loss of mass of the bridge. It can also cause a problem with saddle slot depth, or in some cases even cause bridge failure. When the inevitable neck reset does have to happen it usually increases to cost due to having replace the bridge as well. My two cents, I hope it helps.
 

gadgetfreak

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My D-35 looked like your second pic and for me personally it was not working for my style. I have a very gracious friend and luthier who dressed,leveled,crowned etc.. all the frets, I actually had some frets over the body that were raised as well that he fixed. Then he fashioned me a new bone nut because the original owner completely ruined the original one by reading online forums and thought he was a Luthier:) Anyways my Guild D-35 now plays as good as my electric guitars with no buzzing and I didn't need the neck reset I was so worried about, because I bought the guitar on the high end and even with my luthiers ridiculous discount I was worried about being into the guitar for too much. Quick side note, don't ever look at a guitar in poorly lit room and get caught up in old timer stories of the good ole days, you will pay full price every time,lol. I love my d-35 and now that she is playing the way it's meant to be played it's worth every penny and I hope you feel the same way about your guitar. If you even have 1 second thought of the action being too high, don't settle for less get her fixed if you love the guitar that much. Good luck and enjoy your guitar.
 
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