<Somewhat OT> Epiphone Allen Woody as a Starfire Substitute of Sorts?

twocorgis

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Hi All,

Pursuant to my absolute love of my Epiphone Casady Signature, the Allen Woody Signature has reached my radar. There seems to be lots of love for them over at Talk bass, and I like the idea of a lightweight, relatively cheap 30" scale bass for playing out around drunk people. :very_drunk:

It seems to me that with the usual Casady mods (Hipshot Supertone bridge/Ultralite tuners) to cure the neck dive problem, you could have yourself a pretty nice piece of kit for around $500 or so used. Has anyone here played/owned one? Thoughts?

I guess it also helps that much like Jack Casady I was a pretty big Allen Woody fan while he was still with us.
 

mavuser

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I have one it is awesome! no mods but we got it from what I call the "epiphone refurbishing program" so it was basically brand new but set up by someone in the epiphone warehouse in Tennessee, and cost a little less. We could find no flaws or signs of prior use. It was brand new. got a killer deal on the "Allen Woody case" for it too. the craftsmenship on mine is outstanding. hardware seems a little flimsy but it stays in tune. at first i had to tighten the tiny pup screws with the tiny springs underneath because something was pinging. problem solved easily.

it is thunderous! but no substitute for a starfire. at least not with those pups. but the hollow resonance is there and I love the way it sounds. I am just starting to play it more now. the quality of the wood and all is up there with a 4 figure instrument. set neck...epiphone "custom shop"

I got this as a gift as I have always been a long time huge Allen Woody fan. Ive seen him since the early 90s play bass, guitar, lap steel, and mandolin with Govt Mule, Allman Brothers, Widespread Panic and Blue Floyd. Him and Warren sat in with Bloodkin once also in Breckenridge 1999.

Sandy you can try my bass anytime.
 

twocorgis

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Eric,

I didn't know you owned one, thanks for the report! Was this another Sam Ash find? I'll have to admith that I really like the way these look, and for the price you can't expect that much from the hardware, much like the Casady bass. Interestingly enough, I was at the Electric Hot Tuna set at the Great South Bay Music Festival on Sunday, and Jack's bass appears to be bone stock. My friend Winnie was taking some close up pictures, and while you can tell for sure about the machines, the bridge is stock for sure

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Love to try your Allen Woody out some time. We'll have to get together!
 

mavuser

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yeah, I didnt mean the hardware is flimsy, hard to explain. You have to see it. the tuners are a little light and flimsy. i would not mod or upgrade anything though as long as theres no problems. the bass as a whole though is amazing. its HEAVY! but balanced, no real neck dive. i like playing it sitting down, and my JS1 standing up. You should check it out though.

I think the Casady is long scale, 34." This Allen Woody RumbleKat is a short 30" inch scale like a Fender Mustang. I think most Gibson, Epiphone and Guild are 30.5-30.75

the Woody is a semi hollow with no F-holes, its totally closed

and no not sam ash, look for them on ebay "manufacturer refurbished" but its really just brand new with a "2nd" stamp on the back of the headstock or a sticker with a new serial # on the back of the headstock. I think its an epiphone import/tax scam (importing "used" instead of "new" but who knows.) mine was brand new w the "2nd" stamp.

suposedly they are "dead stock", unsold inventory, returns...mine was brand spanking new, first owner out the box. case candy ("box candy") paperwork, stickers, and all.

We caught one of the 2 or 3 that were on ebay right beofre xmass. was 319 instead of 399. Then the case was 70 something after an $18 price adjustment when the price dropped down from 90. So the whole thing was just under $400 which is a barnburnr of a deal for that thing + case. I'd say most people pay $500 for that package but even that is a hard deal to beat.

Sandy email me and we'll make some plans. You could check it out when we pre-game for Puss n Boots! I want to show it to Cat too. I think someone gave her an Epiphone Cassady or Gibson Midtown, that she has been toying around with. She is playing in Levons Barn next Sat by the way, with Larry Campell and Theresa Williams. Not sure if the regular bass player will also be there, but he has a Cassady too.

And cool that you saw Cassady/Tuna! I usually hit that GSB Fest. And I see Tuna alot too. I remember Mt Jam 2011 they started Bowlegged Woman w that bass line from Cassady's Cassady and it shook the Mountain!

back to Woody, the guy had some serious GAAAAS

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The Allen Woody Rumblekat is designed to look like his custom red Gibson Double-Necks, and like that bass, is designed to sound like his 1956 Gibson EB-1 (SOUND like it, not look like it...)
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fronobulax

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Interestingly enough, I was at the Electric Hot Tuna set at the Great South Bay Music Festival on Sunday, and Jack's bass appears to be bone stock.

I have a vague recollection I read or watched an interview with Jack and he said Gibson gave him two or three Signature basses each year and he played them and they were unmodified. Might have been marketing fluff unless somewhere there is a warehouse with 30 or 40 jack Casady Signature basses that were once played by the man himself.
 

twocorgis

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I have a vague recollection I read or watched an interview with Jack and he said Gibson gave him two or three Signature basses each year and he played them and they were unmodified. Might have been marketing fluff unless somewhere there is a warehouse with 30 or 40 jack Casady Signature basses that were once played by the man himself.

It's hard to believe that Jack hasn't at least swapped out the tuners for the Hipshot Ultralites. Without that mod, the neck dive on the Casady bases is really annoying, and is improved further still with the extra mass of the Supertone bridge. The Supertone bridge also adds to the already formidable sustain that the Casady bass has, and also has individually adjustable saddles. The stock bridge is OK if you can get it dialed in correctly, but that's a PITA, and you just can't escape the feeling that it (along with the machines) is a price point item, while the rest of the bass doesn't look or feel that way at all. Some people say that using a suede strap helps with the neck dive, but I like the Hipshot solution better. :rugby:

Eric, I'll shoot you an email later and we'll work something out.
 

Yggdrasil

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It's hard to believe that Jack hasn't at least swapped out the tuners for the Hipshot Ultralites.

Sandy - based on my conversations with him in the past, I think it's a safe bet that Jack plays totally unmodified Casady Sigs.

P.S. - I had a Woody Sig once - worth every penny of it's low price, but didn't speak to me. Certainly not a Starfire substitute of any sort. Different animal.
 
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dapmdave

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I suspect that the "Epiphone Refurbishing Warehouse" is really MIRC, which is in Tennessee.
 

twocorgis

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Sandy - based on my conversations with him in the past, I think it's a safe bet that Jack plays totally unmodified Casady Sigs.

That is interesting! Aftger palying my bass in stock form, and then with the Hipshot mods, I like it much better the latter way (BTW, did you ever do the mods on yours?). The balance of the Casady really isn't right out of the box. Maybe Jack loads some buckshot in the body somewhere? :wink:

P.S. - I had a Woody Sig once - worth every penny of it's low price, but didn't speak to me. Certainly not a Starfire substitute of any sort. Different animal.

Thanks for the input Frank. After doing some research on these, it's pretty obvious that it's an entirely different beast than the Starfire, but that might not be all bad. It's nice to have a full array of sounds in your arsenal, and I can think of some things in the realm of stuff I play that one of these might be well suited to.
 

twocorgis

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Update: I stumbled across this one for $319 shipped with a OHSC on eBay, and after doing a little research found it was one of the more desirable '09 MIK examples (later ones are made in China), so I pulled the trigger. I figure for that kind of coin, I can't take too much of a beating on it even if I don't like, and it sure is purty, no?

$T2eC16N,!zUE9s389zOcBR6!l5vO-w~~60_57.JPG


I'm just a sucker for dark red!

I've heard that these have some major boom on the bottom end, and that may well be a good thing for some of the stuff I've been doing lately. I know I'm going to like the short scale, too.
 

mavuser

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I've heard that these have some major boom on the bottom end...I know I'm going to like the short scale, too.

nice move.

the "bottom end" u speak of is the signature Allen Woody/Mule sound. he loved Gibson and epiphone basses, not only for the short scale, but for the shorter string that is associated with those particuar setups. (the super short strings that dont fit on Guild or Fender short scale basses...). there is something about the shorter string, that makes it extra "boomy." There is an interview where either he or Warren Haynes, I forget which one, is explaining the whole thing, and Woody says something to the effect that if you can sacrifice something or other with having the short scale/and or shorter string, something about the frretboard or available notes...if you can live without those said luxuries...the tradeoff is this tremendous low/bottom end.

This is the bass sound they were going for when they started Govt Mule. Woody used his extensive Gibson EB collection with that band, and later his custom Gibson stuff. His sound with the Allman Brothers was different and he mostly used a Gibson Thunderbird for that band.

The Woody bass comes with the heavy guage roundwound strings, "true" short scale strings. I prefer the lighter guage (and flats) but leaving these strings on there, to achive both what Woody wanted and the closest to the true Woody tone. I remember reading something that it was specifically made to sound good wtih rounds, or something to that effect. Still I would not hesitate to change to flats, and rekon it would sound pretty nice if I did...I give anyone else the green light to do so, i'm just leaving mine stock for now. Anyone thinking upgrades or mods...its worthy but if your getting it to have a cheap bass, it is really fine the way it is. I can play it sitting or standing but it's on the heavier side.

the case might be too tight in the neck area (have been several reports of this), i took out the top 2 screws and folded back the storage box to abandon it, and rest it on the floor of the case in the headstock area (basically took out two screws and folded it back). now the bass fits perfect and theres some extra padding in the headstock area of the case. I almost returned the case but it turned out to be perfect after the mod. I dont use those storage boxes anyway.

also, mine is one of the earlier ones made in Korea. Got lucky on that as we had no idea there was 2 (or that one would be better than the other, had we even known there were 2 in the first place...). Someone on this forum actually pointed that out in a differnt thread a while back, which was the first I had heard of the China/Korea thing.

Sandy, enjoy!
 
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twocorgis

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Thanks Eric!

Back in the day, I couldn't stand the Gibson EB basses with their mudbuckers and short scale, but times change, and so does amp technology (thankfully). I've got a pretty good mental image of what this one should sound like through the gear that I have, and it remains to be seen whether I'll use rounds or flats. I'll see what it comes with, but it sure looks like the heavy gauge rounds that you mentioned

$T2eC16Z,!ygE9s7HJ-ZiBR6!l9W!vw~~60_57.JPG


I have another set of TI Flats here that I got as a spare for Greenie, and if I'm not totally happy with the sound of the strings it comes with, I can always do the swap. I'd also like to take a look at the case fit issues you mention. Hard to believe really; the case for the Casady fits perfectly, and given that this was a mission specific case for Epiphone, you would have thought that they'd have gotten it right. I'll have to admit that I'm not real keen about giving up the storage compartment, as I get good use out of those as a rule.

Anyhow, the bass should be here Tuesday or Wednesday depending on when the seller ships, as it's in New Jersey one day transit time by ground from me. we'll definitely have to get together and compare notes when it arrives. Thanks again for all your input!
 

mavuser

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Thanks Eric!
I have another set of TI Flats here that I got as a spare for Greenie, and if I'm not totally happy with the sound of the strings it comes with, I can always do the swap.... I'd also like to take a look at the case fit issues you mention.

I say keep those strings for the Starfire and spend the $25 for the D'addario Chromes light guage SHORT scale flats...if you decide to make a change at all. Although u may need a setup if you swap the heavy guage for light. not sure if those strings are available in heavy guage, but if I ever change mine thats what im doing (D'addario Chromes light guage SHORT scale flats- those are the true short scale, flatwound strings)...I use the MEDIUM scale version of those for our Guild/Fender short scale needs- those Daddario medium scale are the same length as TI Flats short scale...the D'addario shorts will only fit Gibson/Epi and a few random others (Hofner/Beatles...) so I would recommend those for the Woody.

and yeah you should see the case thing. opinons vary but I'm far from alone in thinking its too tight w the storage box. not sure if the case is really for the Woody or just a nicer looking epi les paul guitar case. its small! and sleek! fell in love with it once I modded. not saying it would have hurt the bass had I just left it alone, but I wasnt sure, and just didnt like the way it was. I keep my guitars in their cases, not on stands...so wanted to give it some room to breathe with no real pressure points. I think Gibson makes a lot of thier cases too tight, both hard and soft.

the string thing is a little confusing but Amazon has both sizes of the D'addarios, with detailed product descriptions, and actually decent prices too. here's the links for future reference.

SHORT (most Gibson/Epi...but not all)- http://www.amazon.com/DAddario-ECB8...8&keywords=d'addario+bass+strings+short+scale

MEDIUM (Guild Starfire and JS, Fender Mustang)- http://www.amazon.com/DAddario-ECB8...ddario+chromes+bass+strings+flat+medium+scale
 
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mavuser

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Also since I've come this far will add that we saw Govt Mule sat night at the gathering of the vibes, and my gf actually pointed out, the current bass player Jorgen Carlsson, at one point was playing an 8-string bass, which appeared to be set up like a 12 string guitar, with 4 doubles...he was strumming it with a pick and playing it like a guitar. Then he busted out a Cassidy for a few tunes. I know they have some Woody basses too (obviously). Not sure if they perform with it though.
 

bassmyf

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Also since I've come this far will add that we saw Govt Mule sat night at the gathering of the vibes, and my gf actually pointed out, the current bass player Jorgen Carlsson, at one point was playing an 8-string bass, which appeared to be set up like a 12 string guitar, with 4 doubles...he was strumming it with a pick and playing it like a guitar. Then he busted out a Cassidy for a few tunes. I know they have some Woody basses too (obviously). Not sure if they perform with it though.

I used to have a BC Rich 8 string, same set up. Pretty much a one trick pony. It really needed to be played with a pick, and I`m not ( and never was ) a pick player. Left it on consignment at a local shop, and when I went to collect my money after the sale, there was an Alembic Spoiler hanging on the wall. Walked out with the bass instead of the cash. One of my few positive deals, though I`m sure that 8 is worth a few bucks today...
 

fronobulax

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There is a Hamer collector who has shared his collection with some of us. He has both an 8 and a 12 string bass. I have held them both although "played" is much too strong a word. The 8 was tuned EADG in octaves. Definitely needed a pick which is beyond me. The 12 was also EADG in octaves with one of the octaves doubled. I have no idea how you get a sound out of it. I'm quite happy with four strings.
 

jcwu

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If I remember correctly, the bass intro to Pearl Jam's "Jeremy" was done on an 8-string bass.
 
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