Starfire questions

shihan · Apr 16, 2013

I was warned when I joined up here; the first Guild you buy is just the beginning. After no new (to me) guitars for 15 years or so I've bought 1 (X-170) and I'm getting the cash together for a Starfire. They seem to have changed quite a bit over the years.
I know the '60's models had mini HB's. I've seen the 70's-'80's models had HB 1's; and the harp tailpiece seems to have transitioned to a more Gibson like stop TP in the newer models.
Are there major differences in the various years? Does the tailpiece make a big difference? Are the newer ones more Gibson like?
I would be grateful for a quick tutorial.

mad dog · Apr 20, 2013

Shihan:

You are interested in the semihollow SF, the IV, V or VI?
MD

AcornHouse · Apr 20, 2013

There is a big difference between the '60s SF IV and the '90s reissues. I had a chance to compare a 99 SF IV at Gruhns with my 65 SF IV during the recent Nashville getogether. I didn't get to hear the 99 plugged in, but played it enough to note a few major differences.

The later ones are about 2-3 pounds heavier than the '60s (my '65 is 7lbs 2ozs.) Partly because of maple vs. mahogany, and the later ones have thicker laminate tops. Also, the stop tailpiece vs. the harp tailpiece probably adds some more weight; and the open back tuners vs. the newer rotomatic tuners.

The neck is rounder, thicker on the newer ones, the older models have a nice thin neck that I prefer. It's hard to compare finishes, since my '65 has been well played, but the '99 had a thick feeling finish.

The '65 seemed much more resonant played acoustically, whereas the reissue would be better for high gain, sustain; think blues vs. rock.

The are different instruments. Hopefully those with more time on the later SFs will chime in.

My 2¢

shihan · Apr 20, 2013

Thanks, Chris, that's just the kind of info I was looking for. I already have a nice '78 ES-335, I don't want another, I am looking for a different flavor. An earlier model sounds like what I want.
I should have been more specific, I'm interested in a SF IV.

jp · Apr 20, 2013

Hi Dennis,

Some other differences I've noted between the 60s Starfires and the newer reissues:

1) The necks on the 60s Starfires are generally slimmer, while the newer reissue necks are slightly thicker and have a bit more heft. If you're a Gibson player, you may notice the difference. As you may know, playing on a thinner neck profile can cause hand fatigue if you have larger hands.

2) I think that the mini humbuckers are known for being a tad brighter and can have a little more bite than the HB1s.

Hope this helps in your decision!

jte · Apr 21, 2013

This discussion of neck sizes/shapes brings something to mind- Both Guild and Gibson necks varied within periods too. Some ES-335 necks are so small and tooth-pick like to be be anywhere near playable for me. And the neck on my late-Westerly (2001) SF-4 is certainly no fatter than the neck on the mid-'60s one I am most familiar with.

But my SF is certainly noticeably heavier than that mid-'60s one I used to borrow frequently 25 years ago.

John

shihan · Apr 21, 2013

My '78 335 has a really fat neck that I love. Skinny necks was one of my main concerns with getting an older SF. I have pretty big hands, so slim necks are hard for me to play.
As Hans' Book ends in the '70's, I'm pretty ignorant about the next period. I'm guessing Guild didn't make SF in the '80s? I've seen some late '70's models on the bay, but nothing in the '80's; I take it they restarted again in the '90's with the newer, more Gibson-ish model.
Thanks for the replies; very informative!

SFIV1967 · Apr 22, 2013

shihan said:
I'm guessing Guild didn't make SF in the '80s?

That's not completely correct, the Starfire 4 for instance was made until 1987 I believe and Starfires restarted again in 1990, so only 1988 and 1989 seem to be two years without any Starfires.

Just a few examples:
http://www.gbase.com/gear/guild-starfire-iv-sf-4-1983-walnut
http://www.guitar-museum.com/guitar-7071-1983-GUILD-STARFIRE-4-semi-hollow-body-electric-guitar
http://mandoweb.com/Instruments/Guild-Starfire+IV,+Model+SF4-SB-1987/2777
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390422287702

Ralf

steamfurnace · Apr 22, 2013

A number of years back, I was actually looking for an ES335, and tried several late 60's through mid 70's.
I didn't care for the neck on most of them, and they were all over-priced for the condition that they were in. I wound up buying a new late 90's SF IV, and was very happy with the neck and the plugged in sound. Amplified it was remarkably similar to the Gibson Les Paul Deluxe with mini-humbuckers that I owned at the time. I still have the Starfire, but have since sold the Gibson, which sat unplayed for a couple of years.

mad dog · Apr 29, 2013

The neck (and everything else) on the '75 SF VI I had was just about perfect. Not too skinny, not too fat. That was the best non ES-335 semi hollow I've had my hands on. Very different than my '66 ES-335. Heavier for one. The SF VI has an ebony board, so that right there changes things a bit too.
MD

shihan · Apr 30, 2013

Thanks, mad dog. I'm thinking a '70's profile might fit my taste.
Neck size is so subjective; everybody has a different idea of what a 'perfect' neck is. It seems like the '60's ideal was a pretty thin neck. Gibson and fender, and I think Guild, went that way. The '70's kind of reversed that. Now days, anything goes, fat, thin, flat. I'm eager to try the new MIK SF 4's, that will give me a baseline for comparison. I can ask if the neck is thinner or thicker than the new ones.
It's the same problem we all have with buying used Guilds; there aren't enough around to try out several and see what you like.

GAD · May 4, 2013

Go buy Hans' book (It's so worth it!), and while you're waiting, have a read here: http://www.gad.net/Blog/2010/06/24/guild-electric-guitars/

shihan · May 4, 2013

Thanks, GAD, good article. I've had Han's book since it first came out, but as you know it ends in the '70's; no help for the modern stuff. I did not know the late '90's SF4's had imitation HB-1's. I'm glad I found out, I was about to buy a late '90's model. I take it The earliest reissues (late '80's?) before FMC took over had real HB-1's?
Perhaps some can straighten me out about this.

Qvart · May 4, 2013

shihan said:
Thanks, GAD, good article. I've had Han's book since it first came out, but as you know it ends in the '70's; no help for the modern stuff. I did not know the late '90's SF4's had imitation HB-1's. I'm glad I found out, I was about to buy a late '90's model. I take it The earliest reissues (late '80's?) before FMC took over had real HB-1's?
Perhaps some can straighten me out about this.

GAD knows all about those reissue p'ups.

However, for all the slagging the Fender-made pickups get, one of my favorite bands uses a Starfire (from '99 I think) that I'm pretty sure has them and they sound damn good. Of course, the sound depends on their gear too. Also have it tuned to drop-C.

AcornHouse · May 4, 2013

Here's GAD's article about the various Guild 'buckers.
http://www.gad.net/Blog/2011/11/25/guild-full-sized-hb1-and-sd1-pickup-variations/#more-4817

shihan · May 5, 2013

Chris, thanks for the link; that was very informative. Now I feel like I have enough information to make an educated decision about SF4's. Although I prefer older guitars, it seems like the earlier SF's necks would be too thin for my taste, so I'm going to focus on an HB-1 equipped early '90's model.
Thanks again for educating me about SF's.

guildman63 · May 5, 2013

Dennis, you should have caught me early last year. I had a 1991 SF-4 burst in flawless condition with gold hardware and an ebony board (typically has chrome and rosewood) that I sold. It was an amazing guitar, but then some other guitars came up, and that one got cut. I would love to have it back, but I am happy with the guitars I have. I don't recall exactly what I sold it for, but I seem to recall somewhere in the $1500 range. Good luck with the search, you won't be disappointed!

shihan · May 6, 2013

Yeah, Guildman63, you had my guitar...sounds perfect; I'm just late to the party, as usual. But, there are others out there; half the fun is the search. (Well, playing them is way more than half the fun, so 20% of the fun).

mcflavin · Oct 2, 2013

Hi all. Pardon me, will you kindly point me to a thread where I can ask for assistance figuring out the date of a Starfire IV I just picked up? It has a number off all charts I can find online. AG001792

That puts it beyond 1999... The sticker says Westerly, but that is printed on the label.

Thanks!

guildman63 · Oct 2, 2013

My guess would be 2001, the last year Guild resided in Westerly. This is only a rough estimate as the chart I am going by is not reliable. Perhaps Hans will chime in and confirm or refute this date. Meanwhile, a picture is worth a thousand words! :wink:

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