Tons of questions regarding the Starfire II Bass

Ahreeman

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Greetings Guild-maniacs, pleased to meet you,

You know that feeling? The one you say no more, only to prove yourself wrong in due time?

Yes?
Great, because you will sympathize my little predicament !!!

You see I was at that point of saying I won’t buy another bass. No matter what. Had my fair share of Fenders, eventually I managed to afford a new Rick-03 (and at that point I was most certain that I would be (and stay) content for the rest of times). Alas I was wrong! You see I had to walk pass that old pawn shop and see her waiting there, hanging on a wall. A late 70’s cherry colored guild Starfire II bass. I fell in love with her in an instant. I walk casually into the shop, asked if I could try her out and I as blown away. Sleek and slender neck, killer sound (I guess the old tube bass amp had a thing or two) and great looks. The short distance between frets troubled me a bit but I dismissed it on grounds it’s just a matter of getting used to it… (my first bass was a Stu Hamm urge II bass after all).

To cut a long story short, the bass seems solid enough (there is a bit of wear that comes from age but its ok), a volume knob has to be replaced and the controls need some cleaning (there is that static sound when you fiddle with them).

The bass looks like the one in this page http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/would- ... ndex2.html . Everything looks identical. What I want to know is this… it goes for the price of 1000 euros. This means something around 1300 $ (hard case included, plus some minor cleaning by the store owner and If I press hard maybe I can get a cheap strap or a 30 dollar discount). Does it sound like a deal? I mean is it too expensive, too cheap? Dunno. Also I am totally clueless when it comes to semi acoustic organs. What should I keep in mind? Are there any tips and tricks when it comes to checking for defects? Is there a way that I can identify that it IS a Guild instrument? One thing I can say is that it felt way too light. I mean I expected for an instrument of that volume to feel a bit heavier… Also any set of strings will do? I mostly use Rottosound flats on most of my basses. Do they sound ok through effects (especially with choruses, echos and reverbs)? Finally why Guilds are way more expensive than Epiphones JC model (don’t answer that, tried one once, sounded and felt awful) but they fall short when priced next to a Gretsch (the very same ones that sound a bit thin to my ear)

Anyways… sorry if I bothered you with my rants, any pearl of wisdom will come handy… I am most assured.

Slainte
H.B.
Athens, Greece.
 

fronobulax

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Welcome.

First, the bass on the page you linked to seems to be a DeArmond copy of a Guild Starfire from the 90's. The bridge, PU, control knobs give it away.

There is a small picture of a '70's Starfire II (as well as a '60's one) here. There are some pictures of a '90's reissue in this thread.

In general terms the most expensive Starfires are those with the Hagstrom bisonic pickups which were discontinued circa 1970. The '70's basses with the Guild humbuckers and the 90's reissues are valued similarly. The biggest difference between the 70's and the reissue is the bridge. If it has 4 wooden "saddles" holding up the stings then it is '70s. The 90's bass has metal saddles that travel along a screw. Some folks prefer the reissue bridge because it is easier to adjust and finding replacement saddles if one breaks is a pain in the neck.

Anyway, the price on the 60's instruments (with hard case) seems to be creeping upwards from $1800 (USD) so I would expect a '70's or reissue to go for $300-$500 less. So if the condition is reasonable $1300 for a 70's bass isn't a bargain but it is probably not a rip off either. In the US $1300 would be a fair price. My understanding is that vintage instruments are harder to find in Europe so $1300 may be a bargain over there. Cases are hard to come by so drop everything by at least $100 if there is no case or it is useless.

Note that I am talking about a Guild bass (which should be obvious from the headstock). If you really are looking at a D'Armond (which is a sweet bass in its own right, so I've been told) then price should be around $400-$600 USD and it should be in almost showroom condition for the higher prices.

Just my opinion.

As for weight, these are hollow bodies with a solid block down the center so they are not as heavy as they look.

I've used Rotosound rounds on my Starfire and have D'Addario flats now. Lots of folks insist on TI strings and that is what I will try next. I don't use any effects so can't help with that.

The JC Signature is a long scale (compared to the Starfire) and there are stories of quality control issues, but beyone that it is a matter of taste and budget. A JC sig is certainly cheaper if it has the sound and feel you want. Member twocorgis has a JC and a wonderful 60's SF II so anything he says is based (*snicker*) on first hand experience.
 

Ahreeman

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So many thanks for that instant reply...

You are quite right, my perception skills failed me miserably...
i will try to upload the original page.... if things go well it should be here:
- i hope it does look like a Starfire II... Still these two look very similar, so i really wonder how could i tell a DeArmond copy with changed knobs and name plate from an original Guild :(

Also custom work by a local luthier (quite adept at making instruments both acoustic and electric) will be able to compensate lack of original saddle parts?

Once again many thanks for that instant reply...
:)
 

fronobulax

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The link didn't work but if the curious go to http://www.vibrato.gr/#2_1,0,014.jpg they can see it.

The bass in that picture looks to be a 90's reissue Guild Starfire II. Guild because that's what the headstock says (instead of D'Armond) and '90's because the bridge looks like it has metal saddles and adjusting screws.

Since it is the reissue the saddles are not an issue.
 

mellowgerman

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I'd say 1000 Euros sounds like a good deal for a 70's Starfire if it is in good condition, as they are rarer in Europe.
Flatwound strings sound great on Starfire basses. I personally am not a fan of the TI strings because they are low tension and I prefer exactly the opposite. Keep in mind that starfire basses are short scale, so some long-scale string sets won't fit. In the past I've successfully stripped a bit of the outer winding of old-formula Fender flatwounds to accommodate the shorter starfire scale with fantastic results, but some string brands' flatwounds will become unstable when tampered with.
Lastly, it's easy to tell the difference between guild and dearmond, check out the headstocks in these two pictures:
images
images
 

fronobulax

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Not to ruffle any feathers, but I think the bass pictured is a 90's reissue and not vintage '70's because of the bridge. It is a moot point in terms of price since I have seen similar prices since neither has a Bisonic.
 

mellowgerman

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:oops: You are right Frono. I didn't see the photo on the site before. Definitely a reissue bridge.
I've noticed that the headstocks of the reissues seem to look different too... like they got a black finish(?) instead of being fitted with a black veneer like the vintage ones were. Seems to make for different sort of light reflection and slightly softer/rounder edges, which look to be present in the photo on the site.
So I suppose all things do point to a 90's reissue. Although, I still feel like 1000euros for the bass with original case would be a fair price. Seems like I remember the reissues typically going for about the same price as the 70's ones (disregarding the random and unpredictable collector-interest-sparked outliers). Additionally, I get the impression that starfire basses are hard to come by regardless of year.
BUT, considering it's at a pawn shop, perhaps directing them to the serial number database to reveal their dating error, might persuade them to come down 75euros :wink:
 

twocorgis

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fronobulax said:
Not to ruffle any feathers, but I think the bass pictured is a 90's reissue and not vintage '70's because of the bridge. It is a moot point in terms of price since I have seen similar prices since neither has a Bisonic.

Welcome here Ahreeman, and I might ruffle a few feathers here when I say that I LOVE my JC Signature bass (must have gotten a good one), and it has become my main rig for just about everything, including gigging. JCs definitely need some mods though. First thing I did was install Hipshot Ultralite tuners in place of the really cheap and heavy asian-made tuners that cause loads of neck dive. I also ordered a Hipshot 3 point replacement bridge that helps further with neck dive (though it's exponentially better already), and adds quite a bit more sustain to the considerable amount that's already there according to most sources.

I certainly love my '68 Starfire II, but the sad reality is that it's far too valuable for me to play out with comfortably around drunk people! Also, a lot of the gigs my band has been doing lately are benefits for one cause or another that feature a bunch of bands. Not that I don't trust other musicians that I don't know, but the thought of one of them walking off with Greenie just scares the hell out of me. :shock: If I'm going to have one "grow legs", I'd much rather have it be the JC or one of my Pilots. I have a '73 P-Bass that I've owned since I was 14 that I don't play out with any more for similar reasons. The other thing about the SF is that the sound isn't really suitable for a lot of newer songs that the band plays. This is an area where the Casady really shines; the range of tones that you can get out of it is truly remarkable, especially at the price point. JCs aren't for everyone; lots of folks don't like the fat neck and the long scale. I have learned to adapt my playing style, just like mgod told me I would. 8)

I never really warmed up to the sound that the later humbuckers that were used on the '70s and reissue Starfire basses. to my ears, I much prefer the sound of the DeArmond humbuckers used on the DA Starfires, especially with round wounds. Those basses are really great for the money if you can find one. I sold a very nice sunburst one that I had to friend and fellow board member bassmyf, and in retrospect I perhaps shouldn't have done that. You don't see good ones come along very often, and like vintage BiSonic SF basses, their value seems to be rising.

Anyhow, best of luck whatever you decide. Most of the thrill is in the hunt anyway!
 

Ahreeman

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Wow… first of all a big full-hearted “THANK YOU” for all that wealth of information. It’s really great to know that there are people out there with a soft spot for something I also adore (and are willing to part some of their experience in a non-mandarin manner).

The more I think about it, the more I know I have to go there and buy it, no matter if it is a 90`s reissue or a 70`s piece. I guess a vintage instrument would appeal to my base elitism ? but its been like 20+ years since the 90`s. The only second thoughts I have stem from the lack of finesse my play style demonstrates (I kind of make my basses moan instead of sing and I am not sure how this will reflect over a semi hollow short scale starfire) and from the store’s owner conviction that it is a 70`s SF. I mean vintage stands for vintage, not for a re-issue. I was always “yay” for honesty and the fact that an experienced guitar player (and store owner) is willingly to go around the corners for a sale kinda strikes a chord in me. Still it can be a 70`s model with a new bridge, well kept if its from that era, so-so if its from the 90`s.
As I said though, it has that warm, round sound that you can actually pour it in a glass and drink it (I had brought my Ric along to have a measure of amp variation and sonically it was left way behind).

Anyways; few days left till that Christmas bonus and I hope next time I will be posting pics of that beauty. Failing that I will annoy the neighbors a bit more with a couple of death by audio new pedals.

Once again thank you very much…

Till next time
Slainte from Greece.
 

fronobulax

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As you noted this could be a 70's bass that has had the original bridge replaced with a '90's bridge. While that is certainly a possibility my recollection is that the mounting screws are not in the same position so some drilling will have occurred to make the swap. The serial number would shed some light. It should be between 46xxx and 19xxxx (a deliberately wide range) if it is a 70's.

The headstock dimensions might also help figure things out although I'd need some assistance to get it right.

Regardless, given the Guild humbuckers, the difference between the 70's and the 90's is not really going to effect price or value. In this case, condition is more important than age.

Go get it!
 

hagmeat

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Welcome Ahreeman, Tikanis !

Once you go Guild, you don`t go back. Death by Audio make some great pedals.

Don`t forget to show us the pics when you bring her home.

Cheers. Rob
 

Ahreeman

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-Po-lee kalah (???? ????) :D !!!
-Eh-see ? (???;)

Hagmeat, you share any bonds with Greece ?

I have been going through Guild's "Dating Your Guild" pdf but i cant find a match for the serial number that i have been given. The AG100129 does not seem to correspond with neither the 90's Starfire II serials nor with the ones from the late 60`s / mid 70's... :cry:
So... either i am not that bright or there is something that i am missing...

Any suggestions ?
 

fronobulax

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Ahreeman said:
I have been going through Guild's "Dating Your Guild" pdf but i cant find a match for the serial number that i have been given. The AG100129 does not seem to correspond with neither the 90's Starfire II serials nor with the ones from the late 60`s / mid 70's... :cry:
So... either i am not that bright or there is something that i am missing...

Any suggestions ?

Hans Moust - frequent poster and author of The Guild Guitar Book should be able to confirm or correct what I am saying.

A vintage bass will either have a BA prefixed serial number or a five or six digit one. The AG prefix was in use in the 90's when the reissues were reissued. So my guess is that the bass is a reissue. The dating chart is useful but Hans has better and more complete records than those that were used to make the chart.

I don't think there is any question that the bass under discussion is a genuine Guild Starfire II bass. We are just trying to confirm when it was made and even that is somewhat irrelevant given that pickups are what drive the prices and not the age.
 

hansmoust

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Ahreeman said:
I have been going through Guild's "Dating Your Guild" pdf but i cant find a match for the serial number that i have been given. The AG100129 does not seem to correspond with neither the 90's Starfire II serials nor with the ones from the late 60`s / mid 70's...

Hello Ahreeman,

That particular Starfire Bass is from 1998.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

Ahreeman

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@ Chazmo, Fronobulax & Hansmoust : Thank you :D !!!

If i am allowed to whine for just a bit i`d have to implore you to consider that this is Greece we are talking about. Picture this. An average U.S. pawn shop can rival in diversity our top-knotch music stores. And by saying top-knotch i can racall just a handfull in a city of 5 to 6 million people... As for the prices, before the internet era (and by that in greece we mean mid-90`s dial-ups) shops charged for american-made instruments whatever they felt like. Even after the replacement of the local currency by the euro, all prices seemed to convert from $$ to €€ in an instant. A 1200$ guitar would be priced up to 1800€ to 2000€ (just imagine the profit margine). On top of all that enter the mass invasion of Chinese cheap imitations. From designer clothes and bags to musical instruments. So to some extened a certain amount of worry is justified :|

As i said it before, i have never played with a Starfire. The one that i have found, plays great, sounds great, feels great but unfortunatelly hasnt aged equally great. If i can get a 75€ to 95€ discount (and that just because the shop keeper insisted upon the 70`s original thing) this baby is bound to become mine... otherwise i will consider myself an official Guild-o-holic and i will scourge the internets for another :twisted:

Till then,
Slainte...
 

hagmeat

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Ahreeman said:
-Po-lee kalah (???? ????) :D !!!
-Eh-see ? (???;)

Hagmeat, you share any bonds with Greece ?

Hi Slainte, I grew up in a neighbourhood with many Greeks, I have a few Greek friends and
my cousins husband is from Thessalaniki, that place looks beautiful, I would love to visit one day.
Anyway,vintage or reissue should not matter if you like the sound and how it plays, also the price
is fair, so there is not much else to consider.
Good luck mate. Endaxi !
 

Ahreeman

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just bought her...

plays great,
feels great,

its like greatness in square...

and its cat approved :D

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just mundo thanks for all your help and insights...
this is one helluva bass
 

fronobulax

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Pic's don't display and when I tried to fix it for you the links you sent required people to be logged in to Google...

Congrats on a new bass, however.
 
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