D'Addario extra light strings on F512

Ardor13

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I suspect it's an oversight on D'A's part, and it's surprisingly labor-intensive to update webpages.
FWIW; the .12-52's would be lights in 6-string parlance, and the .010-.047's were "extra-lights" ("XL350"), Guild actually did spec 'em on my F65ce, but the corresponding .010-.049 12-string set was call "L1250" for "light" in the '98 catalog:
https://www.gad.net/Blog/2010/07/26/guild-gallery-catalog-1997-1998/#gallery-25
So suspect the existing convention was "grandfathered in" when they introduced EXP's, if you follow my drift.
I don't think Guild themselves ever spec'd .12-.52's after that (and even for at least 4 or 5 years before), even in New Hartford, where the full-size dreads and jumbos did get mediums.
yep, 2013 F512 specs show EXP38's:
https://web.archive.org/web/2013061...s/details/?partno=3852900821#simpleContained4

Note New Hartford also saw the renewal of the Guild-D'A relationship after a separation from approximately '04 to '10, and the first use of coated strings.

Got it, my bad on over-looking that those 12-52's were for 6 string. That said, I still find it a little odd that they define Light/Medium differently for 12-string sets across the EXP and non-EXP lines.

More soon!
 

adorshki

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Got it, my bad on over-looking that those 12-52's were for 6 string. That said, I still find it a little odd that they define Light/Medium differently for 12-string sets across the EXP and non-EXP lines.

More soon!

Ah, didn't even check the link, thought D'A was offering 2 gauges for 12's in the EXP's, seemed to recall GHS does, so wasn't actually questioning that.
I see now they DO offer 2 sets in the uncoateds.
:friendly_wink:
 

Ardor13

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Ah, didn't even check the link, thought D'A was offering 2 gauges for 12's in the EXP's, seemed to recall GHS does, so wasn't actually questioning that.
I see now they DO offer 2 sets in the uncoateds.
:friendly_wink:

I just ordered the Silk and Bronzes. Also ordered a weirdo pack of Adamas 1616's.

https://www.stringsandbeyond.com/ovad16cogaph.html

"Ovation Adamas guitar strings are very well-known but can be hard to find. Most music stores don't stock them. Don't worry, we've got 'em.

Designed from the inside out for balanced performance in tone and feel, Adamas Phosphor Bronze wrap wire produces a rich, full sound with even tone throughout the harmonic range. Their Composite GaugingTM technique utilizes core and wrap wire of identical size so that neither part of the string dominates the various modes of string vibration. Thus, the strings vibrate more consistently and with greater amplitude to produce a sharper, more precise tone.

Gauges:

1616E LIGHT: .010 .014 .023w .030 .038 .047.010 .014 .010 .014 .018 .027w"

:eek:nthego:
 

Ardor13

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Trivial as it might seem, has anyone had any experience playing using D'Addario extra light strings? I bought a pair, but need to wear out my strings before trying them. I was wondering if I would permanently switch to these, and what to expect from them.

Thank you,
Craig

Back to the original question... I just tried extra light Daddario PB's. As some others experienced, they were too light and thin for me on the Maple F512.

As previously mentioned, the stock EXP Light PBs are too stiff for me. Therefore I have most recently installed the Daddario PB Light EXP 80/20's and I love them. Lots of sparkle and shimmer for fingerstyle. Yes, definitely bright, which makes me slow down and be more deliberate. That's what 12's are all about for me anyway... minimum effort producing maximum angel chorus. Mileage may vary for heavy strummers, however using a 0.6mm pick lets me get to strumming pretty good without much crash, if approached thoughtfully.

But I'm a finger-picker, and what I like about the 80/20 is I can wake up the guitar with subtle finger-picking, or dig in and throw off gobs of sparkle and harmonics, and ringing bridge tones. Significant dynamic range. Perhaps not for everyone, but I feel like these strings are close enough to the EXP PB's (same product family and manufacturer), that they aren't radically different. Main benefit is, easier on fingers, and more responsive to nuances (gets that maple ringing and chiming with small effort). Definitely more "flexible", whereas the PB's are more like railroad tracks for me, comfort-wise. The 80/20 tension ratings are not much less than the PB, I think 5-10 pounds, but my sensation of comfort is about 25%-30% improved. I think I might like the sound a little better too. . Think, the final chords of "Leaving on a Jetplane".Basic recordings on an iPhone are beautiful and huge. Hopefully I can settle on the strings and get to playing. So far I Can't put the thing down.

I've got those other string sets I previously mentioned, and I'll try those down the line, and report back
 
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idealassets

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That's convenient that Cordoba reveals the factory spec of their strings. I recall that New Hartford wanted to keep that quiet, and at LMG III they teased everyone a bit about the factory strings, but would not publish it to anyone. Its better that inquiring minds should know...
 

idealassets

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As previously mentioned, the stock EXP Light PBs are too stiff for me. Therefore I have most recently installed the Daddario PB Light EXP 80/20's and I love them.[\QUOTE]

Thanks for mentioning these. I may try some to see how they work, especially since I now play everything in standard tuning not down a full step any more.
 

adorshki

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That's convenient that Cordoba reveals the factory spec of their strings. I recall that New Hartford wanted to keep that quiet, and at LMG III they teased everyone a bit about the factory strings, but would not publish it to anyone. Its better that inquiring minds should know...
???
Suspect this was perhaps due to the imminent announcement of the renewal of the relationship with D'Addario?
When it happened they formally announced that all the dreads would get EXP-17 medium coated PBs, for example, and by 2013 at least New Hartford catalogs show what the guitars came with, because F30's for example did get lights.
Oh yeah they revived the Guild branded strings a bit later as well, so maybe that was yet another not-yet-for-publication item couldn't talk about at that particular LMG?
 

Brucebubs

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I was recently looking forward to trying out a set of Martin Flexible Core PB's MXF700 for the 1st time on my F-412.
Labelled as Extra Light but with an unusual .010 - .054 gauge.
Opened the pack only to find severe corrosion on the strings.

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Martin are replacing them with the newer superseded MA500FX strings which appear to be the same as the older MFX700's.
 

Ardor13

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I was recently looking forward to trying out a set of Martin Flexible Core PB's MXF700 for the 1st time on my F-412.
Labelled as Extra Light but with an unusual .010 - .054 gauge.
Opened the pack only to find severe corrosion on the strings.



Martin are replacing them with the newer superseded MA500FX strings which appear to be the same as the older MFX700's.

I’m really curious about these strings, and look forward to hearing what you find.

My Martin Retros arrived yesterday. The GHS’ Silk/Steels and Ovation Adamas arrived today. But now I think I like the exp 80/20 enough that I’ll keep them on for a while. But as promised, I will try them later and report back
 

Ardor13

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As previously mentioned, the stock EXP Light PBs are too stiff for me. Therefore I have most recently installed the Daddario PB Light EXP 80/20's and I love them.[\QUOTE]

Thanks for mentioning these. I may try some to see how they work, especially since I now play everything in standard tuning not down a full step any more.

Look forward to hearing how they work for you.
 

12 string

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.010-.054????? For what tuning? Just plain crazy! This is the kind of thing which has led me to custom blend my own string sets.
 

Ardor13

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I don't have a Guild 12 string, but in 1989 bought a Sigma 12 string Martin copy, I still have it.
It came with 10s, I've used 9s (9-42 or 45) ever since and the action is almost the same as when I bought it,
never needed any adjustment at all.

One day I'll get an F412 or JF65/12 to match my JF65 and I'll probably do the same.
There is a loss of tone for sure, but I think it keeps them playable for much longer
 

adorshki

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And to thicken the plot those Martin ma500fx’s have 282 pounds of tension, and claim to be flexible strings that allow bends, and reduce finger fatigue. Really curious how that will work out. That’s 20+ more pounds of tension than the exp PBs.

https://www.martinguitar.com/1833-shop/authentic-acoustic-flexible-core/c-24/p-1489

Yeah that'd be a head scratcher for me too.
I gotta assume Martin means "compared to other Martin strings..."
:glee:

And there's still the core wire shape, but only on wounds.
Think Martin just plays by their own rules, but yeah I kinda noticed their set tensions were a bit higher when I was doing my research comparo for the F65ce, although I originally included 'em in the potential sources purely for the sake of looking at all readily available and reasonably priced options.
 
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Ardor13

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Try the Silk & Bronze.

Hey Dreadnut, thanks for the suggestion on the GHS Silk/Bronzes.

I've been playing the Dadd EXP 80/20 lights up until today and I still liked the tone of these strings alot, for finger style. That said, it's still 250 pounds tension, and my wrist issues are lingering. So it became time to try out the SB's. And guess what, they are better than I expected...

SBs "seem" easier on my hand, and still a decently rich full tone. It adds back in some of the trademark fast-decay Phosphor ring -- that doesnt happen in 8020's which tend to be ultra bright highs that are more sustained. At 219 lbs, it's 30lbs less tension, and I think I can tell a difference in playability. That said, this product is technically Silk Phosphor Bronze, so I think maybe some stiffness is added back compared to if these were just bronze. Regardless the net effect seems to be more playability than the last 8020 set (250 lbs). The presence of mids still has a nice percussive and medieval quality to it, and is just different in it's own way. The chorus shimmer is nice, and pronounced in ways the old strings were not-- Not better, just different. Definitely a few degrees less sustain and volume overall, but still it's own "quality" of sustain, and the volume is sufficient. Still got some respectable Bass, and the highs are way more "at bay" than the EXP 80/20s. I miss that high 8020 thing, but the SB highs are nice. It's a different and likable voice. I would say that the strings do "sound a little lighter", if you will, but I think that rather than having a bad effect, it simply has it's own good character. The definition between regular and octave strings is still pretty clear, but not as clear as the 8020s. That's just how phosphor is. I've only played them for about 20 minutes, thus it's early days, but so far it's about as much as I can ask for. I am not sure if I can find a set with this combination of lower tension and decent tone. Always open to suggestions. In conclusion, these might be "the ones". Will report back more later!
 
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adorshki

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I am not sure if I can find a set with this combination of lower tension and decent tone. Always open to suggestions. In conclusion, these might be "the ones". Will report back more later!
In all my digging for the F65ce I didn't find anything readily available, and seem to recall the only reason I didn't go for the silk/bronze was that there was still a slightly lower tension set available in silk'n'steel (for 6'ers).
And those seemed to take a set after about 20 minutes too, but started really coming into their own after about 2 hours, but I think I'm only gonna get about 20 really good hours out of 'em.
Love your descriptions of tonal characteristics, the only difference I perceived with my experiment is that sustain actually seemed (counter to expectation) a bit louder but a but shorter.
Compared to factory PB's at full tension.
Hope it works out !
 

Tom O

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!2s work on a twelve string if you tune down at least two steps. Kottke uses 13s on his Taylors and tunes down to C#. He wants his guitar to sound like a piano not a mandolin.
GHS told me Doyle Dykes uses 605s on his twelves which are 11s.
 

adorshki

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12s work on a twelve string if you tune down at least two steps. Kottke uses 13s on his Taylors and tunes down to C#. He wants his guitar to sound like a piano not a mandolin.
GHS told me Doyle Dykes uses 605s on his twelves which are 11s.
Right, but the primary issue for the OP was stress on fretting hand, and I'm pretty sure that those may still have higher overall tension even 2 steps down than the SB's he settled on for now.
What I do like about GHS' site is that that they actually have a table showing tension of a given string at different pitches, so one could calculate that total set tension if desired.
The secondary issue was overall tone; and the simple issue of how much that lowered tension affects things like "snap" and sustain for hammer-ons, etc, even fret buzz if "too floppy".
IIRC a silk-core set whether SS or SB is still going to yield the lowest overall tensions available.
:smile:
EDIT:
Tom I owe you an apology, I had this thread confused with one Ardor13 started, HIS issue was with playability, now I see this one was idealassets', simply asking about string suggestions overall to which you kindly responded.
 
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Ardor13

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In all my digging for the F65ce I didn't find anything readily available, and seem to recall the only reason I didn't go for the silk/bronze was that there was still a slightly lower tension set available in silk'n'steel (for 6'ers).
And those seemed to take a set after about 20 minutes too, but started really coming into their own after about 2 hours, but I think I'm only gonna get about 20 really good hours out of 'em.
Love your descriptions of tonal characteristics, the only difference I perceived with my experiment is that sustain actually seemed (counter to expectation) a bit louder but a but shorter.
Compared to factory PB's at full tension.
Hope it works out !

I was interested in the Silk and Steels, but some people were saying not enough punch. But I'm still curious. The new 512 maples are lighter and might respond better than old school guild 12'ers. I think I have some Dadd silk and steels laying around if I get bored. the GHS SS's are around 213 lbs if I recall right. but lacking phosphor might add more comfort.

A lot remains to be seen for me with the SB's. I still haven't played since yesterdays post. I noticed my wrist had less stress from them, but fingertips were feeling needled, which is something i've always had with phosphors, so we'll see how it all pans out. Always with the compromises!
 
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