it was hot today- but I picked up something really cool

Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
748
Reaction score
0
Location
St. Louis, missouri, USA
unfortunately its not a Guild (but a great find none the less).
after church I went to a flea market before I had to head off to work in the hot sun. today was the last day for the flea market so everything was 50% off. I looked around for a bit and saw an old set of speaker cabinets sitting there. I picked one up to look at it and immediately noticed it was really heavy and solid (i.e. made of real wood). I flipped it over- it was a KLH from the late 60's. A model 23 to be precise. I figured they must be pretty good (I've been happy with their professional equipment)
I ended up walking away with 2 of them and a KLH woofer from a home theater system (probably from the 90's/ early 2000's) for.... $11.50!. I then spent the rest of my $20 bill on cassettes (alot of back up copies for in-car use) , VHS's (blade runner, predator, and a few other movies I've never seen) and a computer fan which will be used to keep my cars external amp cool. All in all I think I did pretty good for $20.
I still have to hook the KLH's up (too tired to toss my junky shelf speakers and splice the wires for the KLH's) but I should be able to hook them up tomorrow to see how they sound (as long as they arent fried they should sound awesome).
 

Dr. Spivey

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
20
Location
N.E. Wisconsin
Those are real nice old speakers, Kevin. Well worth repairing if they need it. If you haven't yet, enter KLH Model 23 speakers into the old googlizer, and you'll come up with more than you wanted to know.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
748
Reaction score
0
Location
St. Louis, missouri, USA
well I got them hooked up. 1 has amazing "shake the neighbors windows" bass and the other one seems to have bass but it doesnt hit hard at all. it has 1 screw missing the head (so its technically not a sealed enclosure). I'll have to try switching the speaker wires and see if the speakers act the same because I've had issues with loose RCA jacks on the sony graphic equalizer I use(its only from 1984 lol). (didnt realize this until I wiggled one of the wires and the bass started vibrating the floor)
overall, I'm still very impressed with these speakers (even if I do end up ending to take them in for repairs.) the sound quality is on par with the high end equipment I've used at work. the bass hits twice as hard as my woofer cabinet (15''black widow) with my PA head. they sound like a pair of 3 way speakers with the mid range speaker missing but that is easily remedied (I just turn on my set of midrange speakers).
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
Did good Kevin; congratulations; a little Wiki trivia here on KLH where the 'K' stands for Henry Kloss more Wiki on Henry Kloss.

Look like these?:

images
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
kevin the bass man said:
overall, I'm still very impressed with these speakers (even if I do end up ending to take them in for repairs.)
Check out this forum:
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/
It is, for the classic New England speaker makers, what this place is for Guild.
And where I got a lead for the rubber surrounds for my AR woofers a few years back. :wink:
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
748
Reaction score
0
Location
St. Louis, missouri, USA
capnjuan said:
Did good Kevin; congratulations; a little Wiki trivia here on KLH where the 'K' stands for Henry Kloss more Wiki on Henry Kloss.

Look like these?:

images
mine look exactly like those except the tops of my cabinets arent so nice (not that bad, but someone used them as tables).
thanks for the further reading john.

@Al
thanks for the link.
I've been doing some research and figured out what the numbers written on the front of the speaker mean (cone weight in grams). I was kinda P/O'ed because I thought someone had defaced them somewhere along the line.
from what I've read it sounds like the lack of bass could be because of the lack of the box being sealed anymore (broken screw), but its probably because the crossover needs to be redone (apparently not that hard but I'm still scared of doing it because dont want to mess up my speakers) .
I'm not really sure if I want to "dig in" to the speakers. I like the sound they put out as a pair, but its very obvious that one woofer puts out lower bass than the other. I'm wondering if 1 was rebuilt somewhere along the line. the one that puts out less bass also has a broken screw on the woofer surround which I will replace ASAP. also, it looks like it needs some resealing (I'm no expert though),.
I really need to dust off my old cheapo tube amp radio and see how it sounds with these (if it even works).
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
Hi Kevin: for the speaker that's low on bass - did you try reversing the connections? If somebody broke the screw trying to fiddle with it, there's a chance they reversed the internal connections ... that is, the speaker may be out of phase.

Unless the back panel is really loose, it's more likely to generate a buzz than it is kill off output by loosing air.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
kevin the bass man said:
@Al
thanks for the link.
I'm not really sure if I want to "dig in" to the speakers.
It was more for reference material. the more you dig, the more you learn about how delicate some of that stuff can be, like proper alignment of voicecoil.
kevin the bass man said:
I like the sound they put out as a pair, but its very obvious that one woofer puts out lower bass than the other. I'm wondering if 1 was rebuilt somewhere along the line. the one that puts out less bass also has a broken screw on the woofer surround which I will replace ASAP. also, it looks like it needs some resealing (I'm no expert though),.
In the AR forum there've been discussions about how much the sealed enclosure affects response. Juan's probably right, the volume problem's probably due to something else. I'd also check the magnets, make sure they're the same. One of the biggest single differences between modern speakers and vintage ones like that is that they jusrt don't build 'em with nice big magnets anymore. It's what made me decide to re-do the surrounds on my AR's instead of just replacing 'em. And yours are probably old enough that they need it too. It's pretty easy to tell if you've got rubber surrounds, it simply dries out and gets very brittle, it'll even crumble and have cracks.
IF you decide to go that far, I'll tell you what I did, to avoid getting a misalignment of the voicecoil: I glued the new surround to the speaker FIRST, then I glued it to the frame. That way, the surround could be slightly misaligned on the frame, instead of the speaker being slightly misaligned by the surround having been glued to the frame first. It was backwards from the instructions that came with 'em, and it's kind of a PITA. I was just highly motivated at the time. And buzzing pretty good from the glue fumes afterward too. :lol:
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
748
Reaction score
0
Location
St. Louis, missouri, USA
I never even thought about the speaker terminals being switched (or the wires being backwards).
the wires I have running to them are a pair of old speaker wires with RCA jacks to plug into the amp. when i tossed my old speakers (5 watt rms shelf speakers being run by a 100 watt rms amp lol) I simply snipped the hardwired wires at the old speakers and spliced the ends to fit on the terminals of the KLH's. I really cant believe I didnt think that I could have had the speaker out of phase. D'OH! I guess sometimes stuff can be so simple you forget to check that.
I'll have to check in the morning about the 1 speaker being out of phase. those speakers are a PITA to turn around (they're about 5 feet off the ground) and as you guys probably know plywood cabinets (at least i think they're plywood) are very heavy for their size.
as for the surrounds, these surrounds appear to be cloth or some other type of fabric (they're definitely not rubber).
and Al, I definitely agree about the older stuff being made better. Even the high end infinity speakers I have in my car cant hold a candle to the KLHs in terms of sound quality (and they're the newest high end speakers I own). the KLH's make it sound like the band is literally in the room. I cant say I've ever heard a set of speakers that do that. you can hear every note clean and crisp like the band is playing through the speakers.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
kevin the bass man said:
as for the surrounds, these surrounds appear to be cloth or some other type of fabric (they're definitely not rubber).
That's very very good! now be very careful of the cones, you can't get 'em like that anymore, that compressed paper type stuff.
kevin the bass man said:
and Al, I definitely agree about the older stuff being made better. Even the high end infinity speakers I have in my car cant hold a candle to the KLHs in terms of sound quality (and they're the newest high end speakers I own). the KLH's make it sound like the band is literally in the room. I cant say I've ever heard a set of speakers that do that. you can hear every note clean and crisp like the band is playing through the speakers.
Yeah, now imagine what it was like back in the day when producers really knew how to "image" a piece of vinyl. 2 old soundtracks stick out in my mind that used to be known as "reference discs": The original soundtrack to Casino Royale (the '60's version) featuring "The Look of Love", and "Steppenwolf the Second" (it's the one with "Magic Carpet Ride", the whole second side medley is amazing, you can tell where the instruments are positioned spatially), but ya gotta try to find original or at least early pressings in good condition.
If you're into horns, "Kind of Blue" by Miles Davis is a monster must-own classic. Best selling jazz album odf all time.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
748
Reaction score
0
Location
St. Louis, missouri, USA
adorshki said:
Yeah, now imagine what it was like back in the day when producers really knew how to "image" a piece of vinyl. 2 old soundtracks stick out in my mind that used to be known as "reference discs": The original soundtrack to Casino Royale (the '60's version) featuring "The Look of Love", and "Steppenwolf the Second" (it's the one with "Magic Carpet Ride", the whole second side medley is amazing, you can tell where the instruments are positioned spatially), but ya gotta try to find original or at least early pressings in good condition.
If you're into horns, "Kind of Blue" by Miles Davis is a monster must-own classic. Best selling jazz album of all time.
turns out the speaker was just out of phase. I switched the wires and the speakers sound awesome.
I still need to get a turntable for my hifi setup (or fix the early 70's hifi console I own that hasnt worked in over 25 years) but thats for another thread another day.
(fwiw I do own turntables but none of them are for a component system)
I agree about how awesome spacial relationships of instruments are in a record. they really make it sound like you're listening to a concert/ recording session. I could go on blathering about how I think the recording industry sucks and that modern mainstream music has gone downhill (with some exceptions) but I'd be really off topic then.


...Oh wait. this is LTG. :wink:
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
kevin the bass man said:
adorshki said:
Yeah, now imagine what it was like back in the day when producers really knew how to "image" a piece of vinyl.
turns out the speaker was just out of phase. I switched the wires and the speakers sound awesome.
EXCELLENT!
kevin the bass man said:
(fwiw I do own turntables but none of them are for a component system)
I agree about how awesome spacial relationships of instruments are in a record. they really make it sound like you're listening to a concert/ recording session. I could go on blathering about how I think the recording industry sucks and that modern mainstream music has gone downhill (with some exceptions) but I'd be really off topic then. ...Oh wait. this is LTG. :wink:
Yeah it seems spatial imaging has become a bit of a lost art, except for soundtracks, "surround sound" but THAT sounds so artificial it's ridiculous. The real world doesn't shoot sound from the same source at you from 4 different directions. :lol:
We do know that a lot of fault lies with the rush-to market of early CD versions of the record company's catalogs. I've mentioined a couple of times that it was only last year that I heard a CD that had better fidelity than a vinyl, Otis Taylor's "Truth Is Not Fiction". Trust me, that'll make those KLH woofers blow your mind. But it's still a little bit "flat" in "presence".
The 24 bit version of "Kind of Blue" is also very good fidelity, but agan, not quite as "there" as the vinyl. SO I now admit CD's are catching up if theuy're recorded digitally. I'd think they should be able to get "depth of field" or "spatial location" digitally, but I haven't heard it to my satisfaction yet. Seems they're so wrapped up on clarity they only think about making teh tracks as clean and "separated" as possible . I think that's why so much of it sounds so "flat", as in "no depth".
Maybe it was something to do with how the grooves were read by the needle in vinyl, very slight delays between the sides of the groove and the presence of different frequency elements of the same track on each side of the groove would translate as spatial imaging after going through the amp and the cross-overs? Just speculating there though.
Also I ahave to point out the importance of speaker placement to achieve best imaging results.
The shape of the room should be taken into account on how they're placed, either slightly divergent or slightly convergent at simplest level. Sound reflecting off the walls and the back of the room will create interference patterns with the speakers' natural field of sound and certain freqs will get cancelled. So you plan placement to create the best possible "sweet spot". Ideally you want the speakers firing into the length of the room, not the width.
That Classic Speaker forum has some good info about that kind of stuff in the AR section.
I think if you did a little digging on the web you could find a new turntable without having to buy one of those $1000.00+ audiofanatic jobs. It even occurs to me if you've got a hifi store in town they might have something used and "vouched" for. Good luck!
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
748
Reaction score
0
Location
St. Louis, missouri, USA
my speakers are placed at one end of the room so that they are turned slightly in towards each other (room is 20'x 10' with the stereo on 1 10' wall) the speakers are stacked with the midrange radioshacks on the bottom (about 2.5-5 foot off the ground) with the KLH's placed on top of those. given spacial constraints (and the fact that the room is gutted) this is the best I could do. when I get the room cleared of basement stuff (long story) I also have 2 omnidirectional speakers (12'' woofer with horn and crossover) that I will have to find a place to put (I'm guessing either on the ceiling firing downwards, or in the basement firing upwards) as these speakers are quite large and round. (type in Q-12A soundsphere in google to see what they look like- its not quite the same (no horn/ crossover) but it'll give you an idea)
as for the turntable, I know decent ones are out there but unfortunately they usually require buying a complete component system. I have passed on a few decent turntables because I would have had to buy the entire component system, which I did not have the space for (in my car or at home)
what I would really like to do is get my great uncles hifi set from the mid 70's working. it had not been used since the mid to late 80's. I dont recall the brand, but its something I never heard of (I'm guessing a dept. store electronics brand). it was an expensive set when new (3 speed turntable, 8 track (IIRC), and stereo tuner with 4 speakers in the cabinet with outputs for 2 more) and the cabinet is huge (its about 6 feet long and weighs a good 200 pounds). unfortunately the volume pot is broken (everything functions but speakers hiss like volume is turned way down) and I dont know how to get to the radio chassis to check it out since the radio appears to be mounted from the underside and the cabinet is too heavy to lift up (short of using car jacks) .
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
kevin the bass man said:
I dont know how to get to the radio chassis to check it out since the radio appears to be mounted from the underside and the cabinet is too heavy to lift up (short of using car jacks) .
When using the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia, it's easy to forget the downsides of "built like a tank". :lol:
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
taabru45 said:
Check out the thrift shops for used turntables....
Possibly. But in my experience around here at least, you don't see 'em anymore except in cheapo component systems. Goodwill/Salvation Army for example, are pretty hip to what they can get a better buck for in other venues, instead of the stores. The good stuff will probably be found in an antique or electronics specialty shop.
 
Top