Fender is not honoring older Guild lifetime warranties.

Chazmo said:

...do we have official confirmation of this "policy"? I'm not certain if we're working on rumor here or not.

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My thoughts exactly, Chaz.




And here is a shot of repairs-in-waiting at the Westerly Repair Dept. towards closing, after we were no longer accepting guitars and the end could literally be seen.
Twice as much on the opposite walls and lined along the floors was more typical during Repair's heyday.
+ each of us four still had full racks of repairs-in-progress at our benches.


Turnaround time would easily take months.

fronobulax said:

Bikerdoc said:

So, if I were to softsoap the warranty thing I still do not understand why repairs take so long.


Peace

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Violent agreement on that one. A case could be made that warranty repairs should go to the head of the queue in a customer focused organization.

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And, by the way, Amen on this... I am fairly certain that is a relevant factor in whatever decisions take place in this area.

Chazmo said:

Actually, frono, that *is* what I'm saying.

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Cool. So we're back to the marketing and managing threads :wink:

We have never had a definitive statement from Guild concerning warranty work on pre-Fender Guilds. My takeaway from LMG 2010 was that Dave G. said warranty work on pre-Fender Guilds would be considered on a case by case basis but he worked very hard not to make any kind of specific commitment. What is actually being done, or not, comes from anecdotal evidence posted here.

So in a sense we are working on rumor, fueled by the cases that apparently, in the eyes of someone who is not Dave G., are not valid warranty repairs.

It would certainly be a different situation if owners understood that warranties on pre-Fender Guilds were to be handled on a case by case basis and Fender dealers and repair shops made a good faith effort to explain their decisions, and an appeals process was available if the decision was unfavorable.

fronobulax said:

Chazmo said:

Actually, frono, that *is* what I'm saying.

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Cool. So we're back to the marketing and managing threads :wink:

We have never had a definitive statement from Guild concerning warranty work on pre-Fender Guilds. My takeaway from LMG 2010 was that Dave G. said warranty work on pre-Fender Guilds would be considered on a case by case basis but he worked very hard not to make any kind of specific commitment. What is actually being done, or not, comes from anecdotal evidence posted here.

So in a sense we are working on rumor, fueled by the cases that apparently, in the eyes of someone who is not Dave G., are not valid warranty repairs.

It would certainly be a different situation if owners understood that warranties on pre-Fender Guilds were to be handled on a case by case basis and Fender dealers and repair shops made a good faith effort to explain their decisions, and an appeals process was available if the decision was unfavorable.

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Fro... I'm OK with a vague, case-by-case thing. To me that makes total sense. I'm not OK with a blanket rejection of pre-1995 repairs, particularly things like neck sets and finish repair which are part of why people would want a lifetime warrantee. The original poster here said this is what he heard from a Fender rep. and I am reacting accordingly.

Chazmo said:

Fender rep.

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This indeed is the crux of the problem. Who speaks for Guild? Is it Dave G.? Someone else in New Hartford? A suit in Scottsdale? The owner of a Fender authorized repair shop? The problem won't go away until all of those sources tell the same story and tell it consistently.

the Westerly Repair Dept. towards closing, after we were no longer accepting guitars and the end could literally be seen.

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Ack, dang buddy...

Somehow I am a bit skeptical of a looong time Guild owner who uses his first or second post to attack the company over a small repair. It just seems odd to me, then 4 pages of comments with no additional input from the OP.

On a different note I am not real surprised that Fender might want to disown the older Guilds- aren't they pretty famous for their difficult to remove necks? Rumor has it that many a luthier doesn't want to do neck sets on Guilds. Taylor, for whatever you might think of them, at least has it easy when it comes to repairs with their bolt on necks. I don't know if they are as easy as Rigel mandolins where a neck reset might cost $60 to pop it off and shim it. It sure makes it easier to offer a big warranty when your stuff is easy to fix.

When Gibson bought Garrison Guitars they cut off the warranty for all owners. At least Fender is willing to honor the ones where they made them, and earned a profit.

Whether they have to honor them or not comes down to whether just assets were purchased, or assets and liabilities. I suspect nobody here knows the answer to that. It certainly isn't true that a change of ownership would necessarily relieve a purchaser of the warranty obligations of the acquired company, especially so where no bankruptcy is involved.

If I made a warranty claim and Fender turned me down my first question would be the above. Then if I didn't get an answer, they can show me the purchase agreement in small claims court per the subpoena Fender will get.

As my 1975 F212XL has yet to have a problem, I'll cross that bridge if I come to it.

Taylor Martin Guild said:

older Guilds start to need neck resets
Does anyone know whether Martin or Gibson would cover a neck reset on a 30 year old (or older) guitar?

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In 2002, my uncle sent his 1941 D-28 back to Martin for some work, including a neck reset, and had no static whatsoever from Martin.

Allow me to tell a story you a true story......one that's close to home for me.

My sister and her husband bought a swimming pool franchise about 10 years ago. It was both a sweet deal and a nightmare. You see they were able to buy their company for a great price as the company they were buying was in severe financial dire straits. They thought they could make a go of it and right the ship. My sister and her husband spent the next 3 years settling lawsuits in and out of court.....but most by doing repairs that the previous owner had neglected. At the time, the office was building 30-40 swimming pools a year. It took time, but eventually, all loose ends were tied.

My sister's company now builds between 160-200 swimming pools a year. How'd they do that? I'll be honest, I thought there was no way they'd succeed when they first bought the place. Well, over time, they established a reputation........and some of that came from the old customers they had taken care of spreading the word.....I know it for a fact. It's really not that hard to do the right thing.....takes work, but work is just that.....work.....and "commitment". Their commitment to the franchise brand.

Yep, Guild necks are supposed to be difficult to reset......so?....totally beside the point. And though the OP hasn't posted again here since the origional, there have been a rash of these complaints as of late. And some do get hung up on legal jargon (what's in their purchase agreement), but then, that's a big part of the problem with this country today. Is one's WORD worth anything anymore? It may not have been Fender's word, but it was Guild's word, and Fender and Guild are now one. I thought the warranty said "lifetime"?

West

West R Lee said:

Allow me to tell a story you a true story......one that's close to home for me.

My sister and her husband bought a swimming pool franchise about 10 years ago. It was both a sweet deal and a nightmare. You see they were able to buy their company for a great price as the company they were buying was in severe financial dire straits. They thought they could make a go of it and right the ship. My sister and her husband spent the next 3 years settling lawsuits in and out of court.....but most by doing repairs that the previous owner had neglected. At the time, the office was building 30-40 swimming pools a year. It took time, but eventually, all loose ends were tied.

West

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Jim,

Your sister and brother-in-law are 'tops' in my book! Good for them for understanding customer loyalty and the long-term commitment to building customer relationships. YEAH!

Toni

P.S. Hope some of the NH and Fender folks follow our posts and threads. We love Guilds...we want more to love Guilds...I just read a post (on another forum) referring to Guild as the shabby rose of guitars...I wanted to cry, cuz we KNOW Guild is a premium, top-of-the-line, take on all contenders guitar. Made me want to put up my dukes.....and, I don't know how to fist fight. :roll: :shock: 8) :wink:

West R Lee said:

Allow me to tell a story you a true story......one that's close to home for me.

My sister and her husband bought a swimming pool franchise about 10 years ago. It was both a sweet deal and a nightmare. You see they were able to buy their company for a great price as the company they were buying was in severe financial dire straits. They thought they could make a go of it and right the ship. My sister and her husband spent the next 3 years settling lawsuits in and out of court.....but most by doing repairs that the previous owner had neglected. At the time, the office was building 30-40 swimming pools a year. It took time, but eventually, all loose ends were tied.

My sister's company now builds between 160-200 swimming pools a year. How'd they do that? I'll be honest, I thought there was no way they'd succeed when they first bought the place. Well, over time, they established a reputation........and some of that came from the old customers they had taken care of spreading the word.....I know it for a fact. It's really not that hard to do the right thing.....takes work, but work is just that.....work.....and "commitment". Their commitment to the franchise brand.

Yep, Guild necks are supposed to be difficult to reset......so?....totally beside the point. And though the OP hasn't posted again here since the origional, there have been a rash of these complaints as of late. And some do get hung up on legal jargon (what's in their purchase agreement), but then, that's a big part of the problem with this country today. Is one's WORD worth anything anymore? It may not have been Fender's word, but it was Guild's word, and Fender and Guild are now one. I thought the warranty said "lifetime"?

West

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Great yarn Jim, and word of mouth is everything to me too. Props to your sister for building a business that way; I built up a computer support business the same way, and it was a vehicle to the job I have right now.

I agree with you about Fender having some obligation for pre-Fender Guilds, too. Admittedly I was a beneficiary of the gray area, but there's a relatively minuscule population that owns old Guilds and are the original owner and have the original receipt. Can't possibly be a large sample.

Relax Toni, and collect a couple more of those roses while you can.....roses don't have to defend themselves...and I wonder what the source was.........not a rose for sure....they don't spout venom ....Steffan

ladytexan said:

West R Lee said:

Allow me to tell a story you a true story......one that's close to home for me.

My sister and her husband bought a swimming pool franchise about 10 years ago. It was both a sweet deal and a nightmare. You see they were able to buy their company for a great price as the company they were buying was in severe financial dire straits. They thought they could make a go of it and right the ship. My sister and her husband spent the next 3 years settling lawsuits in and out of court.....but most by doing repairs that the previous owner had neglected. At the time, the office was building 30-40 swimming pools a year. It took time, but eventually, all loose ends were tied.

West

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Jim,

Your sister and brother-in-law are 'tops' in my book! Good for them for understanding customer loyalty and the long-term commitment to building customer relationships. YEAH!

Toni

P.S. Hope some of the NH and Fender folks follow our posts and threads. We love Guilds...we want more to love Guilds...I just read a post (on another forum) referring to Guild as the shabby rose of guitars...I wanted to cry, cuz we KNOW Guild is a premium, top-of-the-line, take on all contenders guitar. Made me want to put up my dukes.....and, I don't know how to fist fight. :roll: :shock: 8) :wink:

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Yes we do love our Guilds Toni. That is precisely why we get so upset at the name being tarnished. I do truly hope they make it. I've bought 1 new guitar in my lifetime....I'd like to buy another one day.

West

nodrog1944 said:

I have been playing Guild guitars (professionally) since the '60's. I have four Guild Guitars ( an F-50R, F-512NT, D-212CH, and D-55NT). Recently I had a problem with the F-50 pick guard shrinking. I bought this guitar in the late 1970's from the Vox room in Sacramento, California. No one has ever owned this guitar except me and only two other people have ever played the guitar. Pace Guitars (authorized Guild repairer) in Houston noted that the pick guard was shrinking. Not pealing or coming off, but proportionally shrinking. To make a long story short, the guitar was sent to Fender (unfortunately Guild's parent company) for warranty repair- lifetime warranty. They agreed that the pick guard should not be shrinking but stated the following about the guitar (my guitar who's history I know intimately) :

1. The guitar has been refinished (NOT SO) they stated this because the Tobacco Sunburst covers the portion of the rosette near the neck heel. Of course old Guild folks know that is correct and the way Guild finished their guitars when Guild was still Guild.

2. The neck has been reset. They stated this because the clear finish covers the heel plate...an original Guild feature just like Gibson, Epiphone, etc.

3. The bridge has been replaced and is not a guild bridge. Not so.

After almost six months I got the guitar back and took it to every luthier in the Houston and Austin, Texas areas. They all were amazed at Fender's statements and agreed that the guitar is ABSOLUTELY ORIGINAL.

Now, here is is the clincher...Scott at Fender Guitars stated frankly that Fender would not honor any Guild lifetime warranties for Guild guitars made before Fender bought the company.
If anyone is interested in complete photos of the guitar, let me know.

Anyone else out there had a similar experience??

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Pro:

Scott at Fender guitars contradicted himself. His company spent a long time & great care to disqualify
your guitar from warranty service. If Fender simply does not honor Guild warranties, that would not have been
necessary.

Take 'em to Small Claims Court & publicize it. Not just in guitar forums - but take out ads in magazines.
Unfortunately, that's how the law works. It takes money to make money. Fender probably bought all the
liabilities as well as assets of Guild. Therefore, it's probably liable.

In fact, the care they spent in attempting to disqualify your guitar indicates that Fender is liable for warranty repairs.

Con:

But honestly, maybe I'm too easy-going. I would have just taken the guitar to a local luthier & paid for it.
Time is money. It would be less of a headache. (I know a good one in Houston. He worked on one of my
F65ce's). He didn't cost that much either.

A shrinking pick-guard on a 1970's-era guitar?

I'd take care of it locally.

West R Lee said:

Allow me to tell a story you a true story......one that's close to home for me.

My sister and her husband bought a swimming pool franchise about 10 years ago. It was both a sweet deal and a nightmare. You see they were able to buy their company for a great price as the company they were buying was in severe financial dire straits. They thought they could make a go of it and right the ship. My sister and her husband spent the next 3 years settling lawsuits in and out of court.....but most by doing repairs that the previous owner had neglected. At the time, the office was building 30-40 swimming pools a year. It took time, but eventually, all loose ends were tied.

My sister's company now builds between 160-200 swimming pools a year. How'd they do that? I'll be honest, I thought there was no way they'd succeed when they first bought the place. Well, over time, they established a reputation........and some of that came from the old customers they had taken care of spreading the word.....I know it for a fact. It's really not that hard to do the right thing.....takes work, but work is just that.....work.....and "commitment". Their commitment to the franchise brand.

Yep, Guild necks are supposed to be difficult to reset......so?....totally beside the point. And though the OP hasn't posted again here since the origional, there have been a rash of these complaints as of late. And some do get hung up on legal jargon (what's in their purchase agreement), but then, that's a big part of the problem with this country today. Is one's WORD worth anything anymore? It may not have been Fender's word, but it was Guild's word, and Fender and Guild are now one. I thought the warranty said "lifetime"?

West

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This story really covers it for me - Fender didn't start a new Guild, they bought an established brand. Part of buying an established brand is taking over responsibilty for all aspects of that brand. It'd be one thing if it was a dormant brand name that they brought back to life, but Guild is a continuously operated Brand. Therefore a Guild lifetime warranty is always a Guild lifetime warranty, regardless of who owned the brand when the guitar was made.

If Fender bought the company, it has a legal obligation. If it merely bought the assets, that's another matter.

GUILD® INSTRUMENT LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
Fender Musical Instruments Corporation ("FMIC") warrants this Guild instrument to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for as long as it is owned by the original retail purchaser, except that pickups, switches, jacks, controls, all other electronic components, tuning machines, hardware, pickguards, plated surfaces, cases and case hardware are warranted for a period of one (1) year from the date of original purchase. This warranty applies only to the original retail purchaser when this instrument is purchased from an Authorized Guild Dealer and is subject to the limitations set forth herein. IMPORTANT: PLEASE RETAIN YOUR ORIGINAL SALES RECEIPT, AS IT IS YOUR PROOF OF PURCHASE VALIDATING THIS LIMITED WARRANTY. FMIC has established a network of independent Authorized Service Centers for warranty service. The Guild Dealer from whom you purchased your instrument may also be authorized for warranty service and should be the first point of contact when service of any kind is required for your Guild instrument. To receive warranty service, return the complete instrument to an Authorized FMIC Service Center, with your sales receipt as proof of purchase, during the applicable warranty period. Defective components that qualify for coverage under this warranty will be repaired or replaced (at FMIC's discretion) without charge. Remedies beyond normal service repair of any Guild instrument require both an evaluation and confirmation of the defect and a direct recommendation to FMIC from an Authorized FMIC Service Center for alternative considerations. All transportation, insurance and freight charges associated with warranty service and repairs on Guild instruments are the responsibility of the purchaser, as is any service initiated for the purpose of customizing setups or adjustments beyond factory specifications. Initial standard setup and adjustment of the instrument and its components at the time of purchase are considered normal Dealer product preparation, and are not covered by this warranty Limitations and Exclusions
The following items are not covered by this warranty:

Fret wear, saddle wear, nut wear, strings and batteries.
Setups, adjustments or routine maintenance of any kind.
Damage to finishes or cracks, splitting, or warpage of wood due to changes in temperature or humidity, exposure to or contact with sun, fire, moisture, perspiration, body salts and acids, guitar straps, guitar stands/hangers made from vinyl, plastic, rubber or other synthetic materials, any other chemicals or non-FMIC-approved polishes.
Damage, corrosion or rusting of any hardware components caused by humidity, salty air, or exposure to the moisture, body salts and acids of perspiration.
Any damage to an instrument resulting from customization or modification.
Normal wear and tear on any part of the instrument or case including jacks, controls, switches, plated surfaces, tuning machines, pickguards, handles, latches, case hardware etc.
All other damage and deterioration due to normal usage, wear and tear, aging, accidents, neglect, abuse, or Acts of Nature.
Any instrument, whose serial number is missing, altered or tampered with in any fashion.
Any instrument purchased from anyone other than an Authorized Guild® Dealer.
Instruments that have been serviced by unauthorized persons (any person other than a FMIC Certified Technician at an Authorized FMIC Service Center).


Pickguards- 1 year.

There are too many lawyers in this world- that's what I see when I read warranties.

No the pick guard did not get replaced. I just decided not to do anything at all because the sound is so fantastic. This just gives it a "slightly road worn" look. AND it gives me something to COMPLAIN about. I am not a Fender fan by any means (except for some of their amps, like my 65 twin reverb) Electric guitars should all be made by Gibson (LPC) Guild (no more) or Gretsch (for that Gretsch growel). Stratacasters and telecasters are not for me.

plaidseason said:

Part of buying an established brand is taking over responsibilty for all aspects of that brand.

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Maybe, but the real world doesn't always work that way. Just ask accident victims who won court cases against GM and Chrysler but still have not received the court awarded damages because of corporate purchases and restructuring. You might also wish to look at the GM restructuring which effectively allowed the established brand to shed its liabilities by creating a new subsidiary, "toxic GM", which acquired many of the liabilities, and which then filed for bankruptcy.

Back to Guild/Fender, I think the distinction needs to be made between what FMIC should do and what FMIC is compelled by law to do. Chazmo makes the point that honoring the warranty is good for the brand and possibly expected compared to other guitar companies. twocorgis makes the point that the number of pre-1995 Guilds that are still in the hands of individual owners who still had the required documentation to make a warranty claim is probably very small. I'm now convinced that those points pretty much make the case that Fender should honor the warranty.

As for what Fender is required to do none of us know. We are not privy to the various agreements and it is not a hard and fast rule that liabilities are always transferred. That was probably the case with West R. Lee's sister but not the case for the "new" General Motors, just to give two examples. marcellis' analysis of nodrog1944's experience certainly suggests that someone was making an effort to deter a warranty claim but we really don't know whether that was someone who was authorized to speak on behalf of the corporation or merely someone whose personal career was advanced by not having the work done.

Which leads to a previously mentioned point - who really speaks for Guild/Fender? Scott? Dave G.? We won't know until they tell us and we start getting a consistent experience no matter who we ask.