Fender is not honoring older Guild lifetime warranties.

I have been playing Guild guitars (professionally) since the '60's. I have four Guild Guitars ( an F-50R, F-512NT, D-212CH, and D-55NT). Recently I had a problem with the F-50 pick guard shrinking. I bought this guitar in the late 1970's from the Vox room in Sacramento, California. No one has ever owned this guitar except me and only two other people have ever played the guitar. Pace Guitars (authorized Guild repairer) in Houston noted that the pick guard was shrinking. Not pealing or coming off, but proportionally shrinking. To make a long story short, the guitar was sent to Fender (unfortunately Guild's parent company) for warranty repair- lifetime warranty. They agreed that the pick guard should not be shrinking but stated the following about the guitar (my guitar who's history I know intimately) :

1. The guitar has been refinished (NOT SO) they stated this because the Tobacco Sunburst covers the portion of the rosette near the neck heel. Of course old Guild folks know that is correct and the way Guild finished their guitars when Guild was still Guild.

2. The neck has been reset. They stated this because the clear finish covers the heel plate...an original Guild feature just like Gibson, Epiphone, etc.

3. The bridge has been replaced and is not a guild bridge. Not so.

After almost six months I got the guitar back and took it to every luthier in the Houston and Austin, Texas areas. They all were amazed at Fender's statements and agreed that the guitar is ABSOLUTELY ORIGINAL.

Now, here is is the clincher...Scott at Fender Guitars stated frankly that Fender would not honor any Guild lifetime warranties for Guild guitars made before Fender bought the company.
If anyone is interested in complete photos of the guitar, let me know.

Anyone else out there had a similar experience??

It appears they spent several days, if not more, going over your F-50 with a fine tooth comb. Then had several of their "experts" chime in over the next several months in 8 hour meetings on just how to deal with this dastardly "original Guild owner" and his "defective" and "previously altered" Guild.

Seems to me it would have been less expensive, easier, and much better PR to just place the guitar on a bench and have a tech replace the pick-guard in 30 minutes? Or am I being obtuse?
However I am sorry for your inconvenience and welcome aboard..

Sorry to hear about your misfortune, and welcome here nodrog1944. I guess the guitar ended up in the wrong chain of people.

My experience was different. As has been well-documented here, I shipped my original owner D50 to Nashville for evaluation. After finding out that my guitar had had a neck reset (and not a good one) in its three years prior to me buying it "new", Guild agreed to warranty the neck reset if I paid $280 for the refret and fretboard planing. After taking nearly nine months to complete the job, not only did they warranty everything, they even paid the return shipping. 8)

I think a lot of it comes down to who you talk to. I'm not the original owner of any of my other Guilds, but if I were I'd go right back to Bruce Bolen and Thane Shearon, who run Fender's Nashville shop. They're awful slow, but they do good work...

Did they fix the pickguard even though the old warranties are no longer valid (according to Scott from Fender)?

Been debated here previously. If you can get a sympathetic ear in the corporate hierarchy they MIGHT reconsider.
Note Twocorgis' brief recap of his experience in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22959&p=248854&hilit=nashville#p248854
and the second thread (of at least 3) covering his trials in getting a commitment for warranty work:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18430&hilit=nashville
Note that getting the warranty honored was kind of a mixed blessing for him, they had the instrument for far longer than they originally estimated.
I also understand how frustrating it must be to see statements made about the instrument which you know are untrue, simply because it's being evaluated by someone with no knowledge of Guild construction techniques for that period.
THAT might make it worth another try, only you can decide.
I believe it has been demonstrated that Fender technically has no legal obligation to honor the warranty for guitars made prior to their ownership. It is largely a courtesy.
The technical criterion is probably that "LIFETIME" refers to the life of the corporate entity which offers the warranty, as well as the lifetime of the original owner's ownership. When Fender acquired Guild, it became a new corporate entity and was no longer the company that offered you your warranty.
Cold, but no different than the way the rest of the western world operates, unless specific clauses are written into the deal which obligate the purchasing entity to honor the obligations (like warranties) of the purchasee.
So, all this might not make you happy, but maybe it'll be useful.
oh, And WELCOME ABOARD!
And I see Sandy himself saw this and responded, while I was searching for those threads.

I frer that this is going to become the new standard by which Fender honors Guilds built before their take over.
As more and more of the older Guilds start to need neck resets, we are going to see less and less of them covered by Fender.

I have mixed feelings about this. Sure the guitar was purchased with warranty and the company is still in business but under new ownership.
I can see why they don't want to loose money for repairs on guitars that were made by a different owner.
Didn't Fender give a date that they cut off for warranty work?

This is going to get ugly folks.

Taylor Martin Guild said:

older Guilds start to need neck resets

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I have not read original warranty documents recently but usually the warranty is for "defects in materials and workmanship". I read a lot of posts from people who say there are only two kinds of acoustic guitars - the ones that have had a neck reset and the ones that will need a neck reset. If that is really true it suggests that a neck reset might not be a warranty item. A neck reset might just fall in the category of "required maintenance" after 30 years. A guitar that needs a neck reset might have an implied warranty based upon "fitness for purpose" but a successful claim may involve an enlightened corporation or lawyers.

Does anyone know whether Martin or Gibson would cover a neck reset on a 30 year old (or older) guitar?

Taylor Martin Guild said:

I have mixed feelings about this. Sure the guitar was purchased with warranty and the company is still in business but under new ownership.
I can see why they don't want to loose money for repairs on guitars that were made by a different owner.
Didn't Fender give a date that they cut off for warranty work?

This is going to get ugly folks.

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As mentioned every time the topic comes up, no one posting here knows what liabilities were transferred when Guild was sold to Avnet or to The Guild Guitar Corporation or U.S. Music or Fender. What seems to us to be "The Right Thing" might not be what Fender is legally required to do.

Nevertheless there are people working for Fender who will do the right thing and it is sad that the original poster didn't manage to get in touch with one of them first.

fronobulax said:

Does anyone know whether Martin or Gibson would cover a neck reset on a 30 year old (or older) guitar?

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Frono, I don't know about Gibson, but I have a pretty good friend that just had a warranty neck reset done on a '64 Martin D35. Didn't take almost nine months, either. :roll:

Also, I don't really believe that neck resets are a "wear item" per se. There are plenty of old guitars here, even 12 strings, that have never had them. Brad's '64 F212 comes to mind, and I recall him saying that it's been tuned to concert pitch its entire life. I honestly believe (knowing what I know now) that my D50 was defective from the time I bought it, and I never amassed enough knowledge to realize it until I joined here. In that respect FMIC did the right thing, and should in this case as well.

twocorgis said:

fronobulax said:

Does anyone know whether Martin or Gibson would cover a neck reset on a 30 year old (or older) guitar?

Click to expand...

Frono, I don't know about Gibson, but I have a pretty good friend that just had a warranty neck reset done on a '64 Martin D35. Didn't take almost nine months, either. :roll:

Also, I don't really believe that neck resets are a "wear item" per se. There are plenty of old guitars here, even 12 strings, that have never had them. Brad's '64 F212 comes to mind, and I recall him saying that it's been tuned to concert pitch its entire life. I honestly believe (knowing what I know now) that my D50 was defective from the time I bought it, and I never amassed enough knowledge to realize it until I joined here. In that respect FMIC did the right thing, and should in this case as well.

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Thanks. If Martin is doing neck resets as warranty work then the folks here who have always said a neck reset is inevitable might be over stating the case.

fronobulax said:

twocorgis said:

fronobulax said:

Does anyone know whether Martin or Gibson would cover a neck reset on a 30 year old (or older) guitar?

Click to expand...

Frono, I don't know about Gibson, but I have a pretty good friend that just had a warranty neck reset done on a '64 Martin D35. Didn't take almost nine months, either. :roll:

Also, I don't really believe that neck resets are a "wear item" per se. There are plenty of old guitars here, even 12 strings, that have never had them. Brad's '64 F212 comes to mind, and I recall him saying that it's been tuned to concert pitch its entire life. I honestly believe (knowing what I know now) that my D50 was defective from the time I bought it, and I never amassed enough knowledge to realize it until I joined here. In that respect FMIC did the right thing, and should in this case as well.

Click to expand...

Thanks. If Martin is doing neck resets as warranty work then the folks here who have always said a neck reset is inevitable might be over stating the case.

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That's what I've always thought. There's a lot of guitars out there that live their entire lives without them. I think that there's a small but significant amount of new guitars sold that just don't have a good neck set from the factory, and I think my D50 was one. I'd like to know hideglue's take on this theory.

Sandy is correct in saying Martin warranties neck resets. It is documented many times on UMGF. I have purchased 2 Martins new and the their warranty lists many items that are not covered. A neck reset is not one of them.

twocorgis said:

fronobulax said:

twocorgis said:

Frono, I don't know about Gibson, but I have a pretty good friend that just had a warranty neck reset done on a '64 Martin D35. Didn't take almost nine months, either. :roll:

Also, I don't really believe that neck resets are a "wear item" per se.

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Thanks. If Martin is doing neck resets as warranty work then the folks here who have always said a neck reset is inevitable might be over stating the case

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That's what I've always thought.

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Me too.

twocorgis said:

There's a lot of guitars out there that live their entire lives without them. I think that there's a small but significant amount of new guitars sold that just don't have a good neck set from the factory, and I think my D50 was one. I'd like to know hideglue's take on this theory.

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I suspect he'd agree with you. He hasn't been shy to state the bitter truth before. :lol:

nodrog1944 said:

...

Now, here is is the clincher...Scott at Fender Guitars stated frankly that Fender would not honor any Guild lifetime warranties for Guild guitars made before Fender bought the company.
If anyone is interested in complete photos of the guitar, let me know.

Anyone else out there had a similar experience??

Click to expand...

Between a few of us here, we can get you in contact with the right people and hopefully get some clarity on the situation.

This is the second rejected repair we've heard about in the last week. Distressing.

I'm going to give you guys a heads up that things are in flux at the moment in this area... Unfortunately, I can't talk about it publicly (and I'm really sorry about that). I'll just say that this may be a bad time to be seeking warrantee repair; I don't know. I do know that if you can wait a few months you might just want to sit tight a bit. This is my advice to my LTG friends at the moment. I'm sorry I can't be clearer.

jazzmang said:

nodrog1944 said:

...

Now, here is is the clincher...Scott at Fender Guitars stated frankly that Fender would not honor any Guild lifetime warranties for Guild guitars made before Fender bought the company.
If anyone is interested in complete photos of the guitar, let me know.

Anyone else out there had a similar experience??

Click to expand...

Between a few of us here, we can get you in contact with the right people and hopefully get some clarity on the situation.

Click to expand...

Might have to coin a term for this. How about "Pulling a Sandy" ?
As in, "We helped Nodrog pull a Sandy on Fender"

twocorgis said:

fronobulax said:

If Martin is doing neck resets as warranty work then the folks here who have always said a neck reset is inevitable might be over stating the case.

Click to expand...

That's what I've always thought. There's a lot of guitars out there that live their entire lives without them. I think that there's a small but significant amount of new guitars sold that just don't have a good neck set from the factory, and I think my D50 was one. I'd like to know hideglue's take on this theory.

Click to expand...

Sandy, there may be a lot old guitars out there that live on w/out a reset, but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't needed.
Doggedly overbuilt acoustics are an exception, but that's not what we're talking about for this purpose.
A lot of owners wear blinders & use band-aids of all sorts. I see it all the time. Their precious baby will never go through major surgery... at the expense of improved playability & tone.
Decades with that amount of tension can/will wreak havoc on a guitars geometry. They simply begin to fold.
With a quality flat top, a reset IS inevitable.

As far as new guitars with a poor factory set: good eye, Sandy.

adorshki said:

jazzmang said:

nodrog1944 said:

...

Now, here is is the clincher...Scott at Fender Guitars stated frankly that Fender would not honor any Guild lifetime warranties for Guild guitars made before Fender bought the company.
If anyone is interested in complete photos of the guitar, let me know.

Anyone else out there had a similar experience??

Click to expand...

Between a few of us here, we can get you in contact with the right people and hopefully get some clarity on the situation.

Click to expand...

Might have to coin a term for this. How about "Pulling a Sandy" ?
As in, "We helped Nodrog pull a Sandy on Fender"

Click to expand...

Thanks Al; I'm not worthy

I think it's certainly worth a try; hey, the worst they can say is "no".

OTOH, Chazmo's cautionary tale tells me that there's a sea change in the works at FMIC, and I think I know what it is, too. At that rate, I'd live with the defect until the dust settles. :wink:

Thanks for checking in HG!

hideglue said:

Sandy, there may be a lot old guitars out there that live on w/out a reset, but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't needed.
Doggedly overbuilt acoustics are an exception, but that's not what we're talking about for this purpose.

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But isn't that what most Westerly Guilds were? My D50 is an absolute tank with the early '70s bracing scheme. Weighs about as much as my 12 string, and what feels like twice as much as my Martin or Bourgeois.

hideglue said:

A lot of owners wear blinders & use band-aids of all sorts. I see it all the time. Their precious baby will never go through major surgery... at the expense of improved playability & tone.

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Agreed. Heck, I was one of them!

hideglue said:

Decades with that amount of tension can/will wreak havoc on a guitars geometry.

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I certainly understand the forces on a guitar, it just seems like a lot of them handle it better. :roll:

hideglue said:

As far as new guitars with a poor factory set: good eye, Sandy.

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Thanks. things you learn along the way...

twocorgis said:

adorshki said:

Might have to coin a term for this. How about "Pulling a Sandy" ?
As in, "We helped Nodrog pull a Sandy on Fender"

Click to expand...

Thanks Al; I'm not worthy
I think it's certainly worth a try; hey, the worst they can say is "no".

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Yep. You'd be the definitive case for perseverance paying off. As well as having a bit of a public soabox in the forum here.

twocorgis said:

OTOH, Chazmo's cautionary tale tells me that there's a sea change in the works at FMIC, and I think I know what it is, too. At that rate, I'd live with the defect until the dust settles. :wink:

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Yeah, he got that in while I was still "searching" for that historical info. DOES get my curiosity up.
Prone as I am to wild speculation I'd like to hope it means Guild might be moving their repair work back in-house as has been speculated about, here, before.
With the understanding, to paraphrase one Mr. V. Lombardi, "It ain't done, 'til it's done".

adorshki said:

I'd like to hope it means Guild might be moving their repair work back in-house as has been speculated about, here, before.

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Hope so too Al. It would say lots about FMIC's long-term commitment, too. 8)