Westerly-era Guild "Factory Seconds" -- A few questions

I'm pIcking up a used Guild acoustic shortly, which is stamped "factory second" in red inside the guitar, near the label.

This will be my second "factory second." My other one, a G41 super-dread, is stamped (also in red) with "02," inside a circle, both on the label and on the center seam. (At least, I've always assumed this meant "factory second.")

Just curious if anyone else owns "factory seconds," or knows what qualified a guitar for "factory second" status. Flaws in the finish? Flaws in construction?

It's hard to figure out what was wrong with these guitars, especially since they've both been well-played and have the odd ding and scratch here and there. (In other words, it's hard to tell what might have been a manufacturing flaw versus something sustained in the course of having being played for several decades.)

And how were "factory seconds" marketed in the Westerly era? Sold in stores? Sold privately? Sold to employees?

I assume they weren't covered by the warranty.

Thanks!
Glenn//.

Interesting! I've always heard that Westerly didn't sell seconds. Didn't I hear of "perfectly" good guitars being cut in half on the bandsaw?

Did this happen post Fender?

Hans? Hideglue? Workedinwesterly?

I've heard different things too, which is why I thought I'd throw it out there.

Both these guitars are from the '80s, pre-Fender.

Would folks like to see the stamps? I can take photos, if so.

Glenn//.

The Guilds of Grot said:

Interesting! I've always heard that Westerly didn't sell seconds.............

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That's a myth. Factory seconds from Westerly are not that uncommon. Hans has posted about them a couple of times. My recollection is that Westerly factory seconds, were finish flaws only. And that normal wear and tear would make the original finish flaw indistinguishable from normal wear in a guitar of that age.

~nw

The Guilds of Grot said:

Interesting! I've always heard that Westerly didn't sell seconds. Didn't I hear of "perfectly" good guitars being cut in half on the bandsaw?

Did this happen post Fender?

Hans? Hideglue? Workedinwesterly?

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Grot,

"Seconds" are from earlier periods, but were never sent to market post-Fender OR pre-Fender during the US Music timeline, and indeed met their fate w/the hungry bandsaw... racks at a time.
Many were "saved" by factory rescuers.

hideglue said:

.......

"Seconds" are from earlier periods, but were never sent to market post-Fender OR pre-Fender during the US Music timeline.

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So what years was Guild owned by US Music? Was this directly after Avenet?

Thanks, HG.

~nw

I can personally attest to a '78 D50 that sounds better than any other I have played. The only thing I can find that might possibly be a flaw is the back binding does not meet at the center point of the neck heel. Woo - something to really stress over! :lol: That red 02 "don't mean a thing" after 33 years!

eastcoastbuzz said:

That red 02 "don't mean a thing" after 33 years!

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HERE, HERE!

FWIW, this guitar had a small, red "2" on the back of the headstock. The guitar doesn't belong to me and the current owner is not the first to own the guitar. From the factory...? Don't know, but I could find nothing wrong with it. Neither could the owner... which is why he has it and I don't. :wink:

I have a 1980 D40 antique burst with "factory second" somewhat discreetly stamped in red on the label. No other indication it is a second, except maybe matching half-dime or less sized light spots on the soundboard where the burst color did not as fully absorb into some anomaly in the spruce. Woo hoo, stress out on that. Plays and sounds great, of course. Dave

Hey Frosty, nice D55.... and as always, thanks for the link. It's really nice heading out the door to work with a big smile on my face. Real guitar players can do that..... Tom in Vegas

The Guilds of Grot said:

Interesting! I've always heard that Westerly didn't sell seconds. Didn't I hear of "perfectly" good guitars being cut in half on the bandsaw?

Did this happen post Fender?

Hans? Hideglue? Workedinwesterly?

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I was there in the mid-70's and never saw anything labelled "second" ship out, but an occasional one did go to the bandsaw.

Thanks WIlly --

I said in a previous post that my two Guild factory seconds were from the '80s.

Turns out the seller had the date wrong. The G-37 (which I just picked up a few hours ago) is stamped "Nov 1979" on the brace below the sound hole. Close to when you were there, anyway.

It hasn't seen much play from what I can tell. Almost no fret / fingerboard wear. It's pretty obvious the things that happened in the years since it left the factory: there's one of those tell-tale scratches to the top (caused by the latch on the case, no doubt) and there are a few dents on the back of the neck.

Beyond that, I can't find anything wrong with it.

Glenn//.

I don't know with certainty about Guild, but when I managed a store ('77 - '88) the only company that sold seconds to dealers was Gibson*. Our Guild reps (one had been a Guild rep from before Avnet and worked for Guild until about 1982) never talked to us about factory seconds being available, nor did the telephone sales rep. They did tell us about limited edition factory runs however. Our rep knew I liked F30-R so when they made a small batch of them at one point (when the only F30 in the catalog was the mahogany one) he made a point of calling to let us know.

I've never seen a Guild factory second.

John

*Gibson's policy at the time was that:
[*]The seconds were all cosmetic flaws only
[*]We generally had a very difficult time finding the problem
[*]You didn't know you were getting a second until it showed up from UPS.
[*]The invoice to the dealer was the same amount for a second as a regular product (yet another reason for me to despise doing business with Gibson)
[*]The dealer could elect to return the second at no charge, but their place in the order queue was lost and Gibson re-entered a new order with you at the end of the list. Becuase it routinely took six to nine months to get a new Les Paul from when it was ordered, we never exercised this option... but we of course had to sell the guitar for less than we'd have gotten for the same instrument that wasn't a second...

Glenn,

Your avitar escaped my notice before - AWESOME! Congratulations on your new purchase, may you play it in good health.

Frosty said:

FWIW, this guitar had a small, red "2" on the back of the headstock. The guitar doesn't belong to me and the current owner is not the first to own the guitar. From the factory...? Don't know, but I could find nothing wrong with it. Neither could the owner... which is why he has it and I don't. :wink:

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Doesn't look like a compensated saddle on that Westerly Guild, Frosty.
Sure sounds balanced.
My Tacoma D55 didn't really sound right until I changed the saddle.

If I'm not mistaken, some Westerly guitars were actually stamped "Used" that were seconds.

West