Guild the underdog - why?

Emilio

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A strange question maybe but still.
Guild's been around for years and years but in my book they are still the underdog of US produced guitars. Why is that?
How is it possible for brands like eg. Taylor to grow bigger without having a product that out shines Guild quallity wise (this is not fact just mho)?
Is it due to great marketing, money or is there something else that speaks to the customers in a way that Guild isn't able to.
 

taabru45

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Didn't Taylor go out of their way to provide free instruments to musicians with fairly high exposure...so it became cool for their audience of course to run out and buy one....I have played a couple that I've really liked but mostly good not great sounding, the reverse is true for Guilds I've played... Steffan
 

F30

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I can't understand this either. If you play a comparible Guild to a Taylor, Martin or Gibson most I think would be surprised at the Guild.
The problem I found was trying to locate the Guild to compare. I took a chance and bought online and couldn't be happier. I've since been checking out Guild acoustics and played a few used ones that were excellent. Long live Guild guitars - I hope.
 

silverfox103

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Good question and topic!

A few things stick out that I see. They have been manufactured in 6 places in the USA. They have moved from coast to coast and now back. Something just doesn't make sense there. I have no idea how many ownership changes, but quite a few. I have had no reason to look for a Guild dealer, but I wouldn't know where one is; but I do know where the Taylor and Martin dealers are. I am sure there around; but I just don't know where. For a lot of years they have been owned by either Fender or Kaman, both who are past their prime. They control the budget. Through it all, bottom line, they still put out a good product.


I don't read the guitar magazines too often, but has anyone ever seen an advertisement? Taylor and Martin are viewed as the "cream of the crop" and don't really compete with the imports. Guild is not viewed like that and has to compete with the imports.

What does Guild need? Now that is easy: Warren Buffet!

Tom C.
 

Emilio

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Good points!

So i guess the could "blame" it on limited marketing and never ending ownership story?
Still with such a great product the word of mouth and brand ambassadors should get them a long way.
Or could it be that Guild players are less brand loyal then others?
 

silverfox103

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Younger people like something "new" and the "latest and greatest". Guild, well, they have been around forever.

Amongst the Guild crowd, we are probably guilty of: don't let the secret (Guild) out.

Emilio, I assume you have a Guild, if you do what is it?


Tom
 

chazmo

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Emilio, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

You look at Martin and even Taylor and you see well-focused companies under private ownership since the beginning (Martin is one of the oldest private companies around here). Guild lost its way as early as the '60s after less than 20 years as an independent company. That era, when Fender and others were purchased as diversification investments by electronics giants, was not conducive to much happiness in the guitar business.

Anyway, you also mentioned other factors, which I agree with.

As for brand loyalty, I think that's part and parcel with the changing of ownership (and in FMIC's case, since 1995, poor brand stewardship).
 

tjmangum

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Good discussion. I agree with the points about changing ownership and location and having a not so strong dealer network. From the beginning Guild was always, perception wise - not quality, a notch or two below the big boys. And they seem to have had terrible luck attracting feature artists. Heck, the most renowned artists on the acoustic side have been Tommy Smothers and Richie Havens. Not exactly household names to the guitar buying public. They had John Denver for a good streak, but that was 30-40 years ago.The Archtops had Johnny Smith and Duane Eddy, but only as a briefly passing endorsement. Jack Casady gave basses a boast. But heck, had Clapton whipped up Sunshine of Your Love or Layla on a Guild it might be a different story.

When people talk to me about guitars, almost everyone knows and would like to have a Martin or a Gibson but no one (outside of here) has told me how they were yearning for a Guild. Regarding Taylor, they've done it all right in terms of marketing and product and market positioning. There seems to be more Taylor dealers than Martin dealers and Taylor has something for every price point. When's the last time you saw a "Guild Road Show"?
The reality with most products is that a majority of consumers don't buy based solely upon quality or value but instead buy status or a perceived lifestyle or to be part of a larger group. I was reminded of this last week when I was traveling during what was spring break for many college kids. Seems everyone one of them had their IPhone, texting away, all wearing North Face jackets.
Sadly to say, IMHO, Guild is destined to always be the underdog. Thank goodness the brand has managed to survive all these years.
Terry
 

Frosty

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I'm with dread and the fox. There are some remarkable bargains out there!

I've mentioned this before, and Tom might know this, but a music shop in NH (now closed in defeat by the economy) carried Guild, Martin, Santa Cruz and Taylor guitars. Whenever I would visit, the shopkeeper would find something to put in my hands - "you've got to hear this guitar!" On one visit, it was a new Tacoma D-50. I thought it sounded OK for my style, but then he handed to someone who knows how to play bluegrass with a flatpick. The sound was crisp, clean, loud - everything you might want in a bluegrass band. The guitar had been in the shop for several months and, according the shop keeper, "if it said 'Martin' on the headstock, it would have been sold the day it arrived".

So, maybe if Clarence White or Lester Flatt had played a Guild it would be different - but they didn't, so it isn't. And that's ok by this guitar enthusiast ;)

Taylor guitars... the wide appeal of that brand escapes me. I've owned a few NS instruments - really great for plugged-in classical gigs, but the sound of the steel string models never grabbed me.
 

Ridgemont

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I don't think there is a single reason, but multiple. Yes ownership is a big part, and moving from manufacturing site to manufacturing site over the past decade has not helped. Celebrity endorsements are great publicity which Guild currently does not have. Everybody and their dog has their own Martin signature guitar. Guild only has Richie Havens which, sorry to say, is not relevant with the newer generations. It also has a lot to do with Guild's original business model. When they first started, they were selling their guitars dirt cheap relative to the higher priced Martins and Gibsons. For those who could not afford a Martin or Gibson (which already had a name and reputation) they bought a Guild. The owner of a local Guild shop here always talks about getting his first guitar (an F30) for $100. Even as time went on, Martin and Gibson were able to maintain their status as premier makers, while Guild maintained their status as the inexpensive alternative.
 

steamfurnace

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I do believe that Fender has finally realized the value in Guild as a higher end acoustic brand.
They already had their Pacific rim Fender acoustic line that competes with every other under $500 brand instrument, but nothing in the Taylor, Martin, Gibson price range. We all know that a number of Guild's marquis models could compete with the best of them, and now Fender is making those models available, and advertising in Acoustic Guitar, Guitar Player, etc.
Favorable reviews in those publications has generated new interest in the brand as well.
Will they ever attain the sales numbers and status of Martin and Taylor? Probably not, but I believe they can definitely give Gibson a run for their money.
 

CA-35

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Re;
The reality with most products is that a majority of consumers don't buy based solely upon quality or value but instead buy status or a perceived lifestyle or to be part of a larger group.
What Tjmangum said is spot on. Don't confuse people with the facts. Perception becomes reality. People are brainwashed by the onslaught of advertising and then led to the slaughterhouse. That social pressure to fit in leads many to buy things they don't know the first thing about and are too lazy mentally to have a thought of their own and actually compare one item against another. Thank somebody for these people because it leaves the Guilds to us. It will never change and will probably sway even greater for those other guys as time goes on.
It's funny when you mention you play guitar someone will always ask "What kind?" Then I put a big 'ol southern grin on my face and say with pride a Guild. Buzz kill. The dumb look on their faces is priceless. However the feeling I get when I say Guild and somebody lights up and says what type and how old.............makes it all worth it.

Who knows what would of happened if Al had been a train enthusiast instead of a pilot.
 

hansmoust

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ca35 said:
Who knows what would of happened if Al had been a train enthusiast instead of a pilot.

I'm afraid that a lot more people who have been hurt in the crash!

I'm sorry ......... that's my other...... bad side, which I usually can control pretty well!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

littlesongs

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hansmoust said:
ca35 said:
Who knows what would of happened if Al had been a train enthusiast instead of a pilot.
I'm afraid that a lot more people who have been hurt in the crash!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Underdog? Guilds are guitars for musicians. They remind me a bit of Snap-On tools back in the day. A high quality product with great features and value, but you kinda have to be part of the trade to be aware of them as an alternative to say, Sears.

In my opinion, Guild has no "bad period" or "years to avoid" in their history. Some designs were failures, but there is no comparison to the big factories in Michigan and California that became too busy by the mid-60s to bother trying to make great instruments on a consistent basis.
 

davismanLV

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As everyone has touched on, this is an issue that has many contributing factors. And they all have kept Guild guitars out of the limelight. A single driving force with marketing and promotion... has been lacking for some time.

Here's just ONE example. Go to the Guitar Center website. Click on guitars and then pick six-string acoustic. The list of guitars is 248 items long. You have Martin, Gibson, Taylor, Breedlove, Epiphone, Takamine, Ibanez, Fender, etc., etc. Look at all the guitars you get to look at and compare. Many brands in many price ranges and style. Not one Guild. Not one.

Regardless of how you may feel about Guitar Center, it's one of the largest, if not THE largest purveyor of guitars in the USA. There is no Guild presence there at all.

You can't BUY a Guild, or TRY a Guild, if it's not there to buy or compare.

I think that's a decidedly bad move for a guitar company. Granted, you can get Guilds at other places.... but in my experience, you have to look for them. I bought my Guild @ Guitar Center back in the early 90's. They no longer carry the brand and haven't for some time.

Taylor, Martin, Gibson all put their product out there in the hands of popular artists. Guild does not.

Personally, I'd like to see Guild gain a bit more of the market share. These are just some of my thoughts on the subject. I could be wrong. :cool:
Tom in Vegas
 
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