Guild the underdog - why?

mbaker824

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
62
Reaction score
0
Location
Phoenix, AZ
taabru45 said:
Didn't Taylor go out of their way to provide free instruments to musicians with fairly high exposure...so it became cool for their audience of course to run out and buy one....I have played a couple that I've really liked but mostly good not great sounding, the reverse is true for Guilds I've played... Steffan

Actually, no. In fact, unlike most other guitar manufacturers, Taylor does not give away instruments to performers at all - they have to buy them just like everyone else.
 

Taylor Martin Guild

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
2,735
Reaction score
265
Location
Roy, Utah
mbaker824 said:
taabru45 said:
Didn't Taylor go out of their way to provide free instruments to musicians with fairly high exposure...so it became cool for their audience of course to run out and buy one....I have played a couple that I've really liked but mostly good not great sounding, the reverse is true for Guilds I've played... Steffan

Actually, no. In fact, unlike most other guitar manufacturers, Taylor does not give away instruments to performers at all - they have to buy them just like everyone else.

I'm courious as to where you found this information.
Others have said that Taylor is very good at product placement and gives out guitars whenever they can benefit from the exposure.
The TV show American Idol was mentioned at that time.
 

Yoko Oh No

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
910
Reaction score
54
Location
Scituate, MA
but what if a country's political policies affects the production of the instruments produced within? why wouldn't we be allowed to mention it or discuss it?

did anyone see the pbs special on paul mccartney and the beatles in the soviet union? hell, those poor folks were playing plywood guitars with telephone wire strings...but it was all about the banned music and the freedom they spoke about....

barbara walters asked our last three presidents this question:

If you could be any type of guitar, what kind of tree wood would be used to make you:

Obama said rosewood
Clinton said mahogany
George W. he couldn't be made from tree wood cause he's a bush :shock:
 

jte

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
362
Reaction score
44
Location
Central Illinois, USA
mbaker824 said:
taabru45 said:
Didn't Taylor go out of their way to provide free instruments to musicians with fairly high exposure...so it became cool for their audience of course to run out and buy one....I have played a couple that I've really liked but mostly good not great sounding, the reverse is true for Guilds I've played... Steffan

Actually, no. In fact, unlike most other guitar manufacturers, Taylor does not give away instruments to performers at all - they have to buy them just like everyone else.


The whole endorsement thing is pretty fraught with misconceptions and outright lies. What I've come to understand is that most companies don't give out a lot of free guitars. They'll often sell them to artists at or just below dealer cost, but the real hook up is tour support. If you need gear for a live TV performance the same day as a regular gig in another town, the company will get stuff to you for the show. Or if you have a problem on the road, the endorsed company will go out of their way to get you taken care of.

Ovation's policy when I managed a store was that each artist could buy two guitars a year at a discount below dealer cost. The only person who ever got a freebie was Glen Campbell, and that was a special guitar given after about 20 years to thank him for his unending support of the company from its very beginning. But what the artist got was immediate and hassle-free support. Our store got a call one day from Ovation asking if we had a Custom Legend 12-string in stock. We did so they arranged that an artist performing that night in town would deliver their CL 12 to us (it had a pickup problem) and we'd give the artist ours. We'd then ship the defective one to Ovation and they'd immediately ship us a replacement, plus give us a credit on our next invoice to cover our shipping costs and some for the hassles.

Conjecture about what a company does or does not do with endorsements is pretty futile, and unless one has personal knowledge I'd discount most things I read. Lots of folks on the 'net are incredibly cynical and assume any endorsement is paid for, while others are simply clueless about how the music industry works. Suffice to say I doubt that Taylor gives away tons of guitars, but I wouldn't be surprised that do give away some. I'd bet Fender gives away some guitars, but not nearly as many as people assume they do. I can't imagine them giving Eric Clapton every EC Signature instrument he's been seen with over the last 20+ years.

John
 

chazmo

Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
25,443
Reaction score
7,105
Location
Central Massachusetts
Yoko, politics is off limits here. This is an international site with members who are sensitive to one view or another and political discussion almost always ends in ruffled feathers. Frankly speaking, there is enough passion around here without that. As a moderator, I have seen the effects of this first hand, and I ask for your cooperation (and others') in avoiding these conflicts.

Thank you.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
jte said:
I'd bet Fender gives away some guitars, but not nearly as many as people assume they do. I can't imagine them giving Eric Clapton every EC Signature instrument he's been seen with over the last 20+ years.
John
Your insider insights are appreciated and informative. I just wanted to point out that a "flip side" of endorsements occurred to me a couple of days ago: How much is Fender(or any manufacturer) paying EC (or any other willing artist) for the right to associate that artist's name with their brand? Just a rhetorical question. To point out that it ain't always the idea of getting free instruments into an artist's hands for "exposure", as you pointed out, John.
I also want to take the opportunity to make clear that in fact I have no objection to the use of chinese-built products or GADs specifically, in case that wasn't apparent. When I specify I want an AMERICAN built GUITAR for my collection, it is based on emotional and personal reasons. These are the guitars that will become (my) family heirlooms.
I wouldn't want an American made reproduction Ming vase in my heirloom collection either.
I do get the point that the use of the Guild name on the GAD series HAS resulted in unforeseen negative perceptions about the brand.
The point about whether a given country of origin's domestic policies affect the quality of their product is valid, but as Chaz says, it's pretty darn near impossible to keep a discussion about it on a strictly factual and dispassionate footing.
 

twocorgis

Venerated Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
13,922
Reaction score
6,519
Location
Lawn Guyland
Guild Total
18
adorshki said:
I also want to take the opportunity to make clear that in fact I have no objection to the use of chinese-built products or GADs specifically, in case that wasn't apparent. When I specify I want an AMERICAN built GUITAR for my collection, it is based on emotional and personal reasons. These are the guitars that will become (my) family heirlooms.
I wouldn't want fake or reproduction Ming vases in my heirloom collection either.
I do get the point that the use of the Guild name on the GAD series HAS resulted in unforeseen negative perceptions about the brand.
The point about whether a given country of origin's domestic policies affect the quality of their product is valid, but as Chaz says, it's pretty darn near impossible to keep a discussion about it on a strictly factual and dispassionate footing.

Much better said than I, Al. I looked back on my earlier post, and it was really more of a rant. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Kinda "emotional and personal" like you say.
 

jgwoods

Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
240
Reaction score
0
Location
Chelmsford, MA
hojo199 said:
adorshki said:
fronobulax said:
I suspect if Harley Davidson put their name on a line of Chinese-built motorcycles, even if all the engineering was their own, nobody would buy 'em.
Frosty said:
http://www.harley-davidson.in/

China, not yet, but India...yes they are up and running and will be building there.
China may be next.

It's funny to me that I will admit to being an American guitar snob, but my American built Guild uses Cocobolo from Africa, Carpathian Spruce from Europe, Tuners from Japan, maybe the glue is US sourced, but it's an American guitar by god!

Harley is like that too.
 

cjd-player

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
0
Location
Greensburg, PA
Taylor Martin Guild said:
mbaker824 said:
taabru45 said:
Didn't Taylor go out of their way to provide free instruments to musicians with fairly high exposure...Steffan

Actually, no. In fact, unlike most other guitar manufacturers, Taylor does not give away instruments to performers at all - they have to buy them just like everyone else.

I'm courious as to where you found this information.
Others have said that Taylor is very good at product placement and gives out guitars whenever they can benefit from the exposure.
The TV show American Idol was mentioned at that time.
I got to hear Bob Taylor speak at a Taylor Road show in late 2010. He said that Taylor has never given a guitar to a performer. Every performer who is using one had to choose to buy a Taylor. And chosen over every other brand available to them. Bob Taylor is very proud of that. Nor do they or will they ever feature performers in their advertisements for guitars.

As a corollary, I got to see Doyle Dykes a few months prior. He played his new R. Taylor 12 string that is made with quilted mahogany from "The Tree". He made the comment that he is very nervous putting this $12,000 guitar on airplanes, so he was planning to buy a less expensive twelve string for touring. So even Doyle Dykes has to pay for his Taylor guitars.
 

Ridgemont

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
3,352
Reaction score
1
Location
Austin TX
cjd-player said:
I got to hear Bob Taylor speak at a Taylor Road show in late 2010. He said that Taylor has never given a guitar to a performer. Every performer who is using one had to choose to buy a Taylor. And chosen over every other brand available to them. Bob Taylor is very proud of that. Nor do they or will they ever feature performers in their advertisements for guitars.

As a corollary, I got to see Doyle Dykes a few months prior. He played his new R. Taylor 12 string that is made with quilted mahogany from "The Tree". He made the comment that he is very nervous putting this $12,000 guitar on airplanes, so he was planning to buy a less expensive twelve string for touring. So even Doyle Dykes has to pay for his Taylor guitars.
I am curious to know what Martin does. I find it hard to believe that the fleet of EC signature guitars Clapton totes around on tour was purchased by him.
 

Emilio

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Location
Gothenburg, Sweden
Ridgemont said:
cjd-player said:
I got to hear Bob Taylor speak at a Taylor Road show in late 2010. He said that Taylor has never given a guitar to a performer. Every performer who is using one had to choose to buy a Taylor. And chosen over every other brand available to them. Bob Taylor is very proud of that. Nor do they or will they ever feature performers in their advertisements for guitars.

As a corollary, I got to see Doyle Dykes a few months prior. He played his new R. Taylor 12 string that is made with quilted mahogany from "The Tree". He made the comment that he is very nervous putting this $12,000 guitar on airplanes, so he was planning to buy a less expensive twelve string for touring. So even Doyle Dykes has to pay for his Taylor guitars.
I am curious to know what Martin does. I find it hard to believe that the fleet of EC signature guitars Clapton totes around on tour was purchased by him.
+1
if this Taylor story is true then i'm impressed!
But it would be quite unique.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
cjd-player said:
As a corollary, I got to see Doyle Dykes a few months prior. He played his new R. Taylor 12 string that is made with quilted mahogany from "The Tree".
What, they only cut off a branch at a time? :lol:
Reminds me of the joke about the farmer who takes his dinner guest out to see his prize hog. Tells him the hog has saved his life 3 times. Guest asks: "Gosh, why does he only have one leg?" Farmer says: "Sonny, a hog like that you don't eat all at once."
Now, back to our regularly schdeuled thread. :D
cjd-player said:
As a corollary, I got to see Doyle Dykes a few months prior. He made the comment that he is very nervous putting this $12,000 guitar on airplanes, so he was planning to buy a less expensive twelve string for touring.
That's a coincidence because another thing that occurred to me acouple of days ago is that maybe a bunch of our favorite artists bought Guilds to take on tour for PRECISELY that reason, and 'cause they still sounded as good as whatever they left back home in the studio.
 

kostask

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
1,018
Reaction score
484
adorshki said:
cjd-player said:
As a corollary, I got to see Doyle Dykes a few months prior. He played his new R. Taylor 12 string that is made with quilted mahogany from "The Tree".
What, they only cut off a branch at a time? :lol:
Reminds me of the joke about the farmer who takes his dinner guest out to see his prize hog. Tells him the hog has saved his life 3 times. Guest asks: "Gosh, why does he only have one leg?" Farmer says: "Sonny, a hog like that you don't eat all at once."
Now, back to our regularly schdeuled thread. :D
[quote="cjd-player":fdq4lgqu]As a corollary, I got to see Doyle Dykes a few months prior. He made the comment that he is very nervous putting this $12,000 guitar on airplanes, so he was planning to buy a less expensive twelve string for touring.
That's a coincidence because another thing that occurred to me acouple of days ago is that maybe a bunch of our favorite artists bought Guilds to take on tour for PRECISELY that reason, and 'cause they still sounded as good as whatever they left back home in the studio.[/quote:fdq4lgqu]

"the tree"or "The One Tree" is a heavily quilted mahogany tree that is legendary, both for the beauty of its quilted grain pattern, and it supposedly has all of the best mahogany qualities in existence. It is called "The Tree" or "The One Tree" because no other tree has been found (as of yet) that has the spectacular quilted grain pattern, or the tonal qualities. It was found probably 10-20 years ago, and the amount of usable wood remaining from this tree is now very, very low. The tree was cut down when there were no restrictions on Mahogany.

Kostas
 

cjd-player

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
0
Location
Greensburg, PA
kostask said:
"the tree"or "The One Tree" is a heavily quilted mahogany tree that is legendary, both for the beauty of its quilted grain pattern, and it supposedly has all of the best mahogany qualities in existence. It is called "The Tree" or "The One Tree" because no other tree has been found (as of yet) that has the spectacular quilted grain pattern, or the tonal qualities. It was found probably 10-20 years ago, and the amount of usable wood remaining from this tree is now very, very low. The tree was cut down when there were no restrictions on Mahogany.

Kostas

The Tree
The whole story:

Quilted Honduran Mahogany
It was found deep in the outer reaches of the Chicibul Jungle in Honduras. One hundred feet tall, with an appearance like nothing else of its kind. Revered, discussed, and theorized by guitar makers for decades, it has the makings of a story straight out of Hollywood. We’re referring to sets of highly figured mahogany (swietenia macrophylla) that are truly without equal, known in guitar circles simply as, "The Tree."
The Tree was felled in 1965 and chose its own direction on the way down, landing in a deep, nearly inaccessible ravine. It remained there, irretrievable, for 18 years. Finally, temptation prevailed over the physical obstacles and an ingenious plan was developed. The Tree was quartered where it lay, then dragged, trucked, and floated over 170 miles to an ancient steam-powered mill for rough processing.
It is the most stunning mahogany ever seen. We realize that’s a strong statement, but in a generation of guitar building we have yet to see any mahogany like it. The wood has an incredible deep quilt figure, overlaid with tortoiseshell "veins." The guitar in these photographs has no color or tint added to the finish. The color you see is actually the natural color of the wood. It also happens to be the best sounding mahogany we have ever used to build guitars.
To call it rare would be a gross understatement. We have a very limited number of sets remaining of this Premium Grade Quilted Honduran Mahogany. We also have a limited supply of AAA grade sets from the same source. These sets have a lovely quilt figure, and the same great tonal properties, but without the tortoiseshell "overlay."
You may be wondering why we have wood that is only now being made into guitars, some forty years after it was cut. The answer is simple. The wood is so rare and so unique that woodworkers have simply been fearful of working with it. The thought of breaking or wasting any of it has just been too daunting. And yes, it is extremely expensive.
Is there another, similar tree somewhere in the jungles of Honduras? Nobody can answer that question, but be sure that the stories of The Tree will be spun for decades.
 

Dr. Spivey

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
20
Location
N.E. Wisconsin
Ridgemont said:
I am curious to know what Martin does. I find it hard to believe that the fleet of EC signature guitars Clapton totes around on tour was purchased by him.

The artists who have Martin signature series guitars are allowed to chose a charity, which Martin donates to in the artist's name. The artist is given one or two of the guitars, after that they have to buy them. I read this in an interview with Chris Martin on the Modern Guitars website which seems to be defunct.
 

cuthbert

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
350
Reaction score
0
Dr. Spivey said:
Ridgemont said:
I am curious to know what Martin does. I find it hard to believe that the fleet of EC signature guitars Clapton totes around on tour was purchased by him.

The artists who have Martin signature series guitars are allowed to chose a charity, which Martin donates to in the artist's name. The artist is given one or two of the guitars, after that they have to buy them. I read this in an interview with Chris Martin on the Modern Guitars website which seems to be defunct.

I don't believe that Clapton purchased twenty 000-28s at street price, not even with 40% of discount.

For Taylor, they give their guitars for free to performers in TV shows, especially on MTV, at least in this country. It's a part of theri marketing strategy and it's working very well, 15 years ago nobody knew anything about that brand.
 

count savage

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
117
Reaction score
0
Clapton would be a special case, wouldn't he, when you help design and have a guitar named after you? It becomes a contractual relationship and I'm guessing he gets X number of products or can get them when he requests them. Martin has a number of signature guitars, which are all probably different set ups for each artist. Gibson has some, too. On the other hand, I saw Chris Smither a few weeks ago playing smaller bodied Collings, which he bought used after it had been commissioned by someone from Collings and returned. Chris said it was the best guitar he'd ever owned, suggesting it was the best he'd ever been able to afford. He's a great guitarist, been playing since the '60s. No endorsement there, and yet, what better endorsement? If the Taylor quote is true, more power to Taylor. I purchased a Taylor recently after going through about six different hogs from other makers. I bought it because it has the best pick-up system of any acoustic-electric I've found. That's likely why so many live performers use them. I don't think they're necessarily the best sounding guitars by any means, but they're great for live performance and they're extremely well built and pretty flawless. Strangely nobody takes the mahogany Taylors into account when comparing with D-18s or D 40s, but they're really competitive soundwise, what with scalloped forward bracing, etc. That said, I like the sound of my Guild D 50 even better acoustically in a room unamplified, and the D-Tar Wavelength is no slouch, either. I'm envisioning those two duking it out in the future on stage.....
 

jte

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
362
Reaction score
44
Location
Central Illinois, USA
Ridgemont said:
I am curious to know what Martin does. I find it hard to believe that the fleet of EC signature guitars Clapton totes around on tour was purchased by him.


Why is that hard to believe? He's got a crap load of money since he quit smack, and every guitar he plays is going to be worth a lot of money when he auctions it off for The Crossroads Center (his addiction recovery foundation). See, people like Clapton are probably worth at least as much as, if not more than the C. F. Martin corporation is.

John
 
Top