63 Gibson Falcon (Crestline)

Hi Guys

Never posted to this section before, but I've been lurking just a bit. I bought a Gibson Falcon GA-19 RVT the other day. It's not the tweed style, it's the Crestline. I'm planning to pick it up on Saturday. It's in very nice shape cosmetically, but not the original speaker. Not really concerned about what it's worth, I just want to explore a new set of tones and I'd demo'd a similar amp at my local gear store and thought this would be fun and encourage me to play differently to make the most of its wild reverb and tremolo.

While I'll probably play it as is for a while, I understand the circuit changed from a fenderish scheme to something with almost no mids when they moved from Tweed to Crest, but that it can be modded to reclaim those lost mids and that it adds a lot to its sound. Any of you have experience with this amp or this mod?

Best - Steve

There was a tweed vs. crest discussion here a while back.

BTW, I'm pretty ignorant on the subject of Gibson amps, but Cap'n and some others here seem to know a TON.

Wow. Lots to digest there, thanks. Will need to wait until after work to digest all of it! The technical aspects are definitely not my strong point!

Hi AG and congratulations on your new amp! The 'Crest' model stayed in the line for a number of years and went through several revisions; do you know whether yours has 6V6s (earlier models) or 7591s (later models)? The early models had Jensen C12Rs and the later ones Gibson 'Ultra Sonic' speakers or something like that, said to have been made by CTS. They are not highly sought-after speakers.

The thread that Kakerlak linked I did because I had a tweed model and a good friend has a Crest model; the tweed model, on the bridge p/u and with treble rolled off, would start to break up pretty early while the Crest stayed cleaner at the same and higher volumes ... I got to wondering why .. in terms of pieces and parts. Another member, started with my thread and regressed a Crest model electronically back to a tweed model; link to that thread here.

As you will read, his interests were highly technical and even though his finished amp passed a signal, getting an impression of the differences in tone from his posts is a little tough. In any event, it's an excellent read but regressing the amp isn't a Saturday afternoon job on the kitchen table; it's time-consuming, labor-intensive, can't easily be undone, and at the end of the day, the tone results can't be guaranteed.

Apart from fresh power supply and cathode capacitors, the biggest bang-for-your-tone-buck will be in a new speaker; if you have a '60s-era replacement, you might want to be thinking about a new one and, if so, what type - alnico v. ceramic.

Anyway; looking forward to some pics and your impressions of what you have.

This is what I can tell you. It was advertised as a 1963 Gibson GA 19 RVT 1-12. Serial # is 487638, but I can’t find a resource that will map that number to a specific year. Not sure of the tube config yet. The previous owner says he put a new speaker in it when he got it because the original was gone. There’s an unspecified Mojo Tone in it now. The reverb and tremolo both work and it has the original footswitch. He says the amp was recapped a couple years ago and it is dead quiet. We will see.

So, that’s what I know now. In truth, I’m not a savvy amp consumer, but this was a reasonably cheap chance to broaden my horizons. Sounds like I'll play it and like it as it is, given your description of the complexity and uncertain outcomes of that mod. Anyway, I’m hoping it works out.

Gibson sold a ton of these amps; it was far and away their best-selling model but there's no web-resident database of serial numbers or anybody like Hans to compile the data to connect serial #s to models ... it's just not there. If your seller is telling the truth, you're getting an amp that's had recent heavy maintenance w/ a fresh speaker ... you can't go wrong with that. The rest of it will be about matching up with your expectations and preferences.

I love the Crestline version and don't consider it to be inferior to the tweed version, except maybe cosmetically. They sound great. I could believe there is a midrange response difference between the two, but the Crestline version is certainly not deficient in the mids.

Didn't Jim McGynn play through one of those Byrds songs?

Default said:

Didn't Jim McGynn play through one of those Byrds songs?

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Jim/Roger ... according to Gibson's self-congratulatory history pages, did the jingle jangle with an Epiphone EA-14 Ensign like this one:

Okay - I love the amp, but it is a good news/WTF story at this early juncture.

It is in amazing condition, having reportedly lived in a studio for much of its life. The MojoTone speaker sounds great and the mean, growling, but understated break-up this thing achieves with the neck pick up of my 97 Bluesbird and 66 Starfire V makes me understand what you are all referring to when you describe these sounds. Freakin' phenomenal. While we are on good news, here are some pictures...

Front view: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3075573/63%20Gi ... ont%20shot

Left Control Panel: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3075573/63%20Fa ... ol%20panel

Right Control Panel: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3075573/63%20Fa ... ol%20panel

The Guts: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3075573/63%20Falcon%20Guts

Reverb Tank with Date Stamp: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3075573/63%20Fa ... rbe%20Tank

On to the bad... I picked this thing up in person and it was dead quiet during a brief test run that confirmed the reverb and trem worked. It did not sound nearly as good with his PRS HBs as it does with my guilds and I do think this is one of those amps that can sound flat if you don't work to find its sweet spot (which ain't hard). Anyway, the next morning, after about a 30 minute medium volume basement jam, it started humming and it now seems to get worse each time I use it. I've left a message for the seller, who advertise it as-is, but also as hum-free, and I am uncertain as to how I should proceed or what I should be asking for when (I hope) he calls back. I paid $450 because (I'm impulsive and) it had a new speaker and reportedly a cap job a few years ago, so I figured I was paying in purchase price for the stuff that normally needs doing when you find one for <400. I'm sure the hum could have a variety of causes, but have no sense of what it would likely cost to correct the problem, which I'd use as a point of negotiation.

Any thoughts, suggestions, knowledge?

Steve

Hi Steve; I can't get the pics to open - it looks like it's a password-protected on-line storage site. You need to get back in touch with the seller ... ask him whether he had the work done or whether that's what the previous owner told him ... or lied to him about having had done.

Usually ... but not always ... the hum you're describing is from a bad electrolytic capacitor; either a filter cap or a bad cathode resistor bypass cap. If true, in either case it's the kind of thing that would have been part of a routine cap job.

Hmmm. Not sure what's up with the pix. They are copies "public links" from my public (shareable) folder on Drop Box. I have to go coach a basketball game right now, but will read up on posting pix and try to get it to work later. Based on our conversation at the time of sale, the previous owner (2 years ago) told the seller he had the caps done - no way to verify. It does have a nice three-prong chord - probably from whatever that servicing did include.

Okay; we'll see if anybody else can view your pics but Mozilla / Firefox isn't letting me into your pic folder.

So, somebody really did do some work. It's just another guess but if it doesn't hum at start up, then I think that points to a cathode bypass cap ... maybe resistor that gets hot and drifts out of tolerance. Opinions vary but when I change output tube cathode bypass caps and the resistor is original, I change the resistor ... some people prefer Swiss, others preference cheddar ...

Hi Steve: I got the files to open by using IE ... Mozilla can be a little over-protective. As mentioned in email, need pics of the component side of the chassis. Hope you get to feeling better.

Hey Cap'n and Co.

Thanks for the ongoing advice you've been providing. While it's a little frustrating that the amp isn't quite right, it's been a good learning experience and the seller is a decent guy, so I think it will all end well enough. I'm bringing the amp back to him this weekend and he is going to try swapping out the tubes involved in the reverb channel and we'll see if that helps or not. If not, I'll try to negotiate a little cash back to cover the cost of doing some other work and making it right. With the support of folks like you, I believe I can make it right.

Because I've never owned a vintage amp, I'm curious whether there are any rules I should abide by in terms of overdriving it with pedals, etc. Can I just hit it hard (sonically) like I would a modern amp or should I handle it with more care? I will say that while I love its cleans, I'd also like to be able to push up its mid-range, so that it is a bit more versatile. Wondering if anyone has any pedal recommendations for injecting mid-range grind into a clean amp?

Thanks - Steve

AfterGlo said:

... ... I'm curious whether there are any rules I should abide by in terms of overdriving it with pedals, etc. Can I just hit it hard (sonically) like I would a modern amp or should I handle it with more care?

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Hi Steve: just a few rules:

1. Don't give it the finger.
2. Don't throw it down the stairs.
3. With only 15 watts, don't try to compete with a 50 watt bass amp.
4. When it's on the bench, don't turn the power on with the speaker disconnected; you can ruin the output transformer.

You can't break anything by feeding it pedal-driven signals; all you can do is over-load the preamp to the point where it sounds like mush ... but that's true of most amps.

Good luck with your seller.

Hi

Okay. I have the amp back and the hum is completely gone and all functions seem to be working. The amp sounds great, with a very warm, clean sound - really makes me want to play an acoustic through it, but sounds stellar with the Bluesbird. Sounds best at playing for yourself in the basement levels - not a gig amp for my applications.

The hum was very loud -- only with reverb switch on-- when I gave it back to him and is non-existent now. The seller said he swapped the 6eu7s between V1 and V2 and also cleaned the contact points on the reverb tank, which were oxidized. He made both changes before turning it back on, so he wasn't sure which fix resolved the problem. I suppose I could switch the tubes back and see if the hum re-emerges, but I'm thinking maybe I'll leave well enough alone for the time being (opinions?).

So far I've put about an hour on it in two separate sessions since getting it back, with no issues. Unfortunately, but I'll be shut down for a few days after slicing the ring finger on my playing hand open this morning with a kitchen knife. 3 stitches and a gig Saturday night. This one's gonna hurt!

Best - Steve

Cap'n - If you still recommend it, I will probably update those pre-amp bypass caps. Seems like a good project to get my feet wet on!

Steve

capnjuan said:

... Don't give it the finger.

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Well ... so much for that piece of advice. :wink:

Over the years, the jacks on the reverb can get a layer of corrosion on them. Not that it matters but if I were guessing, I think the cruddy jacks were the problem; after all, if you switched a bad tube to another location, you'd still get something nasty ... you'd just get it somewhere else in the circuit.

The preamp cathode caps will do some tightening up ... making the tone a little crisper particularly in the upper bass and mids.

Good luck with your amp ... and your gig.

Wow - the finger joke was just too prophetic!

If anyone has tips for how to keep a lacerated finger together for a show, send 'em now!

I have five days to heal a cut that goes laterally across the finger tip (following the same line as the strings). Canceling is not an option, or so I'm told, but I can at least avoid soloing, as I'm primarily rhythm and vocals. The stitches will still still be in when I play Saturday night. I'm thinking a couple steri-strips and a finger cot (like a rubber) over it and we'll see how it goes. Anyone used superglue in this situation?

Talk about thread veer! Is their a finger triage forum?

AfterGlo said:

Anyone used superglue in this situation?

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Yes ! It is an approved medical adhesive in the US and was used elsewhere long before that for the same purpose, including as a battlefield suture in Vietnam by the military.