At last, Gretsch 6165 coming home

It's been a long wait. Got this "Variety Plus" amp early in 2010. It looks like this one:

http://www.ludlowguitars.com/item/6165-variety
(click the photo for more)

Only in better condition. Not quite mint, but close. Mid 60s. 2x6L6, 35 watts or so. Valco made, has what sounds like a real pitch-shifting vibrato, plus a reverb tank under a false wooden floor. Jensen C12PS speakers, small magnet ceramics which sound ungodly good.

Took it to my tech for a checkover, new high/low gain switch, and to get the reverb working right. Whereupon chaos ensued for him (divorce, business troubles), so my amp just sat. He's an old friend. I have empathy, so made sure to acknowledge that while yelling at him. It's ready to go, so I'll have it by Friday. Can't wait ... it's like buying the same amp twice!!

MD

Hi Michael and congratulations ... and no bromides about the wait ... or your friend's circumstances. I looked all over for a schematic; saw your posts too here and there on this amp. I guess it's an up-powered 6162 ... with 6L6s not 6973s ... both with reverb, the 6165 with roach-coupled tremololololo; if the trem wasn't working, always a good place to start. Does yours have the 'extra' 5" speaker?

Hey Cap. No smaller speaker I could see. Just the 2x12s.

MD

And home it is, at last. Just plugged in for the first time in a year. What a HUGE difference. He replaced the reverb pan, which apparently was the source of the weak and strange reverb tone. Replaced the high/lo gain switch, which had been near inoperable. Put in a pair of NOS Sylvania STR 386 tubes (of which I have become quite fond.) Did a bit of judicious preamp tube swapping. (There are 6 of them.)

Before, it had a sweet, pretty sound. Just not that much of it. Now, PROBLEM SOLVED. Same sweet sound, prettier, much louder. Those old Jensen C12PS speakers are the secret ingredient. Small magnet ceramics. Greenbackish in a way. Not hugely efficient, but always just right on the ears. The other nice touch is the vibrato. Not sure what it is exactly, but it sounds very much like the true pitch shifting vibrato in my long-gone Twilighter 260. As in amazing.

For those who have not had the pleasure of playing Valco made stuff, I can highly recommend it. This thing is completely under the radar, why I'll never know.

MD

Hi Michael; any chance those output tubes are STR387s and not STR386s? The tube data indicates that they are a 6L6 variant; one gent on the Gear Page equates them with expensive 7581As.

The folks at Vacuum Tube Valley are offering: " ... An exact replica of the famous Fat Bottle Sylvania 6L6GC/STR387 (used in high power 6L6amps in the 1970s), except this version has black shiney plates. Perfect for Jolida, Cary, Antique Sound, McIntosh, Radio Craftsmen, Heathkit, etc.tube hi-fi amps. Handles high voltage, good clean and sweet sound with minimal distortion the best sounding new 6L6GC for high fidelity amps."

The remarks above and on TGP suggest that the tube is an 'audio-grade' version of the 6L6. Anyway, if you have 375-400V or so on the plates, chances are you are getting +/- 35watts; most 6L6-50 watt amps have something at/above 450V ... maybe those more better gooder 6L6s are how come you're getting more better gooder tone?

Capn:

Right you are. It was a typo. My long time amp tech buddy tipped me off about these tubes years ago. In essence, they're the non-mil spec pre-cursors to the 7581 tubes. According to him, much the same. I have them now in several amps, and they sure do the trick for me.

I'm sure these tubes play a part in why the amp sounds so good. Just jammed with a friend, played it for hours with hollowbody jazz boxes, a LP, tele, and LP Special. The lo/hi gain switch turns out to be very useful. And the vibrato - whatever it is - is way past hip. My fave tone so far, LP Special with vibrato on, lo gain, medium volume. So pretty. Have to do some clips. This amp was worth the weight.

MD

Other than the Magnatones and the licensed variants, not sure I remember seeing any makes with true pitch-shifting vibrato. But I also can't think of any reason that would have kept Gretsch from spiffing Magnatone to use its circuit. Our member LeonC has done several Youtube vids with his pitch-shifting Maggies: Vid A and Vid B. At least in these demos, the vibrato seems to have a 'foamy' quality not found in conventional tremolo. Our member Kakerlak has a Noble amp .. one of the many Maggie-licensed variants discussed in this LTG thread. He posted some pics that I marked up pointing out the varistors.

LeonC also posted another Youtube vid of his scratch-built Maggie in which you can see the odd-shaped varistors shaped like a spool but with a skinny body. Anyway, maybe you could call you man ... if he feels like taking calls ... and ask him whether yours has these varistors - or - if you feel adventurous, you could back the chassis out far enough to peek around. If your amp has 4-8 varistors, then more likely than not you have true pitch-shifting vibrato. I really have no idea how it works but if it walks like a duck (has varistors) and quacks like a duck (sounds like Leon's Maggies), then ...

I'm sorry about your friend; as with most people, things tend to be fine ... until the wheels come off.

Still no pics of this valco made Gretsch (broken camera on its way back from the shop.) But did get some clips at practice.

This is an unnamed fragment the keyboard player threw out. I started feeling my way into it, then found it, urged on by the drummer. Ends abruptly. Rough stuff, but you can hear the 6165 well. Playing a Chandler bodied tele (spruce topped, chambered) via clean boost and a little delay:

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10198621

This amp is really hitting the spot!
MD