Does this look like a Magnatone to anybody else?

kakerlak

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Innards!

First off, I pulled the tubes and cleaned them so they're nice and shiny. They match up w/ John's diagram w/ the exception of 12AX7s where the diagram has 6EU7s (just like Cap'n said it might...). The 12AX7s and 12AU7s are all Telefunken, the 6973s are USA, ESTEY branded, and all the others are GEs.

One stacked cap was gone, but I was surprised to find that the other, which is still in place is disconnected. There's a nearby tree of new caps near each. Other than that, it looks original inside and is covered in the same baked-on dust that the tubes were...

Behold:
PICT2090.jpg

PICT2091.jpg

PICT2092.jpg

PICT2093.jpg

PICT2094.jpg

PICT2095.jpg

PICT2096.jpg

PICT2097.jpg


Caps by the missing original cap:
PICT2100.jpg


Caps by the disconnected-in-place original cap:
PICT2098.jpg


Oval speakers look to be in good shape like the 12s:
PICT2099.jpg
 

capnjuan

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Hi K: these are the varistors ... one of them looks like it's got a little hunk of tone cheese on it.

varistors.jpg


This is a link to the front-end of the Magnatone-Valco site. It used to be led by a gent named CJ Polous (the real 'cj') and far and away, the most knowledgeable guy around on the subject of Maggies. If you join and prowl around, you might find some other Maggie/Noble variant owners as well as a specification for the varistors. Some more information bits and pieces about varistors here.

Techno-jabber; looking up varistors today will get you hits on MOVs / metal oxide varistors commonly used to snub 120V inrush currents in electronics and those power strips everybody uses. I don't know if any modern MOV will function like the varistors in your Maggie ... I really don't understand how they work in the circuit in the first place.

Whoever did the caps did a good job; the missing can probably had catastrophic failure and instead of waiting for the other to blow, he did the smart thing; disconnected it and put it fresh caps ... if this was a $5,000 Deluxe ... maybe not ... but not replacing worn, vulnerable parts means sending a down-stream owner to the shop because nobody wanted to take the time to put in $10 worth of parts ... it's what I would have done.

The amps is typical mid-60s; the blue Sprague molded case signal caps are the same as those found in mid-60s black- and silver-face Fenders ... depending on who you talk to, great for tone but mostly they are rugged and reliable. The resistors are a blend of carbon composition (brown body) and carbon film (tan body) also suggesting mid-60s. There are intellectual arguments about the tone implications of both; the carbon comp generating period-correct 'mojo' (a/k/a grit and noise) while the carbon films are generally quieter and can be made to tighter tolerances.

More than anyone else, Gibson fell in love with the 6EU7; they put them in their high-line stereo amps in the 50s and in the tweed-era GA19s / GA30s / GA77s, and several of the later 'crest' model amps. They are twin-triodes ... just like a 12A_7 but have a different arrangement for the heater connections; at the time, thought to have been a little quieter than 12AX7s. Their only drawback these days is that they are getting a little rare and don't come in as many flavors/brands as 12AX7s ... the Euros never fooled with them. Speaking of ... eBay Search String for Telefunken 12AX7s; your four Telefunkens could be sold for about what you have in the amp; whoever owned it had it working to perfection; fresh caps and premium tubes ... we at JuanzAmpz approve 8)

If you get a Mr. Clean thing going, you can use alcohol and and toothbrush to get rid of the tone dust. I think clean cars runs run better than dirty ones but then I also prefer Gouda cheese; up to you but alcohol will work fine.
 

kakerlak

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capnjuan said:
If you get a Mr. Clean thing going, you can use alcohol and and toothbrush to get rid of the tone dust. I think clean cars runs run better than dirty ones but then I also prefer Gouda cheese; up to you but alcohol will work fine.

LOL,
I may end up doing that. It does make that heating up old dust smell you get from turning on a dusty lamp after it's been on a while...

All in all, I'm a little perplexed at how this amp went from somebody who either knew and cared enough to work on it themselves in a competent manner or who took it to a competent tech for work to a guy who really didn't know much about it. My gain though! I honestly figured that, at the price, I would be getting an all original amp that was lucky to be in working order and would probably break before too long. I'm stoked to have ended up with something that's been recapped and has a fair chance of being pretty reliable.

Might have to find some time this evening to make some underwater Ventures noises after football is over!

Actually, speaking of noises, I played this amp with a junky Airline at the owners house and it sounded great. It sounded less great w/ my Tele back home (but then again, I didn't have it turned up as loud). I wonder if this amp will tend to favor certain guitars more than my Super Reverb, which seems to sound great w/ anything... Anyway, I have Gretsch, Guilds, Strat, G&Ls, Jazzmaster, SG, etc. to test it with. Thinkin' its vibrato might sound pretty good w/ the 2&4 positions on the strat and with the out of phase middle position on my X700.

The Super is a bright, vibrant, dynamic amp and I've got it loaded w/ 6L6s and those nasty Chinese 12AX7s that just say "China" in that crude red ink that's probably the blood of the assembly workers, lol. Anyway, it breaks up early and is pretty lively. I used to have it loaded w/ 5881s and Sovtek 12AX7 WXT+s and it was a lot warmer/calmer... This amp seems a little more restrained, but some of that might be lack of reverb. The old Super is a well traveled amp and its reverb pan is loose and sloppy and probably adds some gain by way of feedback...
 

capnjuan

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kakerlak said:
... This amp seems a little more restrained, but some of that might be lack of reverb. ...
Hi K; I'd be inclined to think that the suggestion of restraint is a function of the 6973s. If your amp's power supply matches up with the Maggie 480, then you have 400-odd volts generating 25 watts/channel or, strapped/both channels running, 50 watts total. For contrast, Guild's 'Thunder' head series uses a pair of 6L6s at 460-odd volts to generate 50 watts.

Also as Walter Broes has pointed out many times, apparent volume / loudness is also a function of speaker efficiency; I don't know what you have in the Fender but the Oxfords have their detractors ... eh ... some people unceremoniously referring to them as 'Ox-farts' :( ... but except maybe for updated speakers, hard to see how it could be in better electronic condition.
 

kakerlak

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Only slightly related, but I noticed this on eBay's bottom scroll of popular items. It's a Noble guitar, same logo font and everything. Interesting that this company, whatever they were in the 60s was licensing Magnatone amps and cheapo Japanese guitars.
 

skinny

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kakerlak said:
Only slightly related, but I noticed this on eBay's bottom scroll of popular items. It's a Noble guitar, same logo font and everything. Interesting that this company, whatever they were in the 60s was licensing Magnatone amps and cheapo Japanese guitars.

Continuing the side note on Noble brand, here,s a Danelectro made Noble Challenger amp I noticed the other day.

http://www.gbase.com/gear/danelectro-no ... 1962-black

skinny
 

kakerlak

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skinny said:
kakerlak said:
Only slightly related, but I noticed this on eBay's bottom scroll of popular items. It's a Noble guitar, same logo font and everything. Interesting that this company, whatever they were in the 60s was licensing Magnatone amps and cheapo Japanese guitars.

Continuing the side note on Noble brand, here,s a Danelectro made Noble Challenger amp I noticed the other day.

http://www.gbase.com/gear/danelectro-no ... 1962-black

skinny

Neat! And I'll raise you another crappy Japanese guitar and a 3rd tube amp (which I notice has the same gold label-maker strips for brand and model info that mine has)
 

capnjuan

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kakerlak said:
Hi Kaks; I hate to pick on somebody else's chops but that demo vid is pretty lame ... I listened to it a couple of times and am still wondering whether he was using a dobro or resonator guitar.

"Noble" or not ... not the best advertising for an eBay auction. :shock: :shock:
 

teleharmonium

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This thread isn't current anymore, but I have some more info on Noble, they were a Chicago area retailer (Don Noble & Co) that would contract out amps and guitars each year with various companies. I have two Noble amps made by Ampeg, I've also seen other Noble amps made by Magnatone (smaller 1 12 combos) and Valco and later ones which were imported from Japan. All of the Noble guitars I have seen were the Mosrite style from Japan. They sold a lot of accordions too.

The smaller of my Noble amps is a great one, it's built from the same chassis and cabinet as a Rocket (with a single 12" of course) but it's single ended with one 5881, making it the only single ended amp made by Ampeg I have ever seen.
 
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