Guild Starfire IV v Gibson ES335 - do you need both?

I'm curious what the experts and users in here perceive to be the differences? Is it worth having BOTH? I know its a Guild forum, but which would you choose if you had to choose one?

I own a beautiful black 1978 Starfire 4 with the block inlays, converted trapeze to stop bar, and original HB-1 pups.

I feel the Guild is bigger, and with the pups has wayyyy more attitude. It rides with my Les Paul in terms of how much it can push my Marshall and how "big" it can sound in the bridge position under gain, for a hollow body. The flatter frets and sweet for jazzy playing, and the woods of the body definitely give a Gretsch like bite, pop, and twang.

However, I am prone to wondering here and there if I don't want the "softer", "airier" feel of a Gibson ES335 Dot with the fat 50s neck carve and T Tops or 57 Classics or Duncans as my pickups. The slimmer and "smaller" body is a little easier, and the taller frets make rock and blues a little more convenient.

In the end, they are so similar, it almost seems redundant to own both. Or are they really NOT that similar?

My only point of reference comes from having played a 1966 335 and a late 70's SFIV. I liked everything about the Guild better: tone, feel, neck, style, etc. But, I am 10000% biased because I think Guilds are the best guitars on the planet.

I had this discussion at work the other day, and my buddy says there is some magic tone that you can only get from a real ES335. I don't have any ES335s, but I have three Starfires that in total, cost less than an ES335, so I'm OK without the magic tone.

Had a recent IV, and it was a versatile guitar.

I have not had much luck with the ES-335 family. The ones I had were not really the "ones."

I did once have a nice used early seventies ES-355 stereo (the stereo was a tpina) with the fancy headstock, ebony board, and terrible huge gold-plated maestro vibrola (also a tpina).

Also a used ES-347 that was awesome in its way, but I just never bonded with it.

The walnut brown ES-335 with trapeze tailpiece I had was terrible sounding. A real "nothing" tone. I traded it to a guy for the ES-347!

All in all, these guitars are not what I'm looking for, but at least I could live with the Guild IV I had (for a while). :roll:

GAD said:

but I have three Starfires that in total, cost less than an ES335

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That's a another pro about the SFire!

Fellas, I have a theory. It's what you grow up listening to! Do you like BB King, Freddy King? Did you like Clapton when he played the 335 with the full stack Marshall on the first tour to the States and got the Woman Tone??

If you do, then let me tell you about the red '65 335 that sits about 15 feet away from me as I type this.

I owned it 30 years ago. Back then, somebody had already traded out the trapeze for a Stop Tail and changed the tuners to Schallers. I kept it for several years, then sold it 26 years ago to my 'Honorary Number 2 Dad' when I was broke at the end of school (no disrespect meant to my real Dad, a wonderful man who died when I was 9, 48 years ago. It's just that Number 2 is a great man, too, and has been there for me a long, long time).

Back to the 335. It needed frets then, but he played it with flat-wounds and it didn't matter. I've tried to buy it back for 23 years and he never wanted to sell it. A few months ago, in his mid-80's, he hung up his guitar spurs and had me sell all of his guitars. When we got down to the 335, he called me out to his house in the country and gave it to me. Dad No. 2, his real son and I all stood there and blubbered. Three old men crying. Funny, ain't it?

But I veer. Back to the guitar. I had it carefully and expensively re-fretted, along with a new bone nut. I put a new tune-a-matic bridge on it and replaced the bridge posts and thumbscrews. I located a set of NOS Schaller M6 tuners from the '70/'80's and installed them in place of the slightly worn out ones already on the guitar (no, I didn't damage the headstock wood, it was already that way when I bought it). I had the pickups adjusted, not just for height but to sit in perfect relationship to the strings (without tilt!).

It rings like a bell, warm and treble-ly at the same time, incredibly responsive. The pickups sound exactly like the the pickups in a friend's '64 ES-335 that was 40-odd serial numbers away from Clapton's red 335!! I don't know what it sounds like in a Marshall, but it works really well with a '65 Vibrolux Reverb. It can sound like a Tele, like a warm humbucker guitar, like anything except a midrangy, muddy Les Paul.

A year and a half ago, I had a '67 Starfire V that I bought for a friend. It was very much like the one he had as a kid in the late '60's. He replayed every lick he ever played back then on it. I played it for several months, played a gig with it, too. Great ice-pick bridge sound, good neck pickup contrast, plus if you fiddled with it long enough you could get a good jazz sound out of it.

In my opinion, my '65 335 is a more versatile guitar than the '67 SF V. For what it's worth, I think my friend with the SF V would agree.

That being said, the SF V cost my friend $1500 plus shipping (a little rough). It's a fine, fine guitar and I would much rather have it than any 335 DOT reissue I've ever played. Also, the '65 335, on the open market, even with all the alterations, would cost somebody $4-5K. As well, every guitar is different and pickups vary from year to year, maybe month to month.

I don't know that guitars fit well with generalizations. I think most of the '70's 335s I've played weren't as good as the '60's ones, but on the other hand, I have played some very good ones. I think you just play as many guitars as you can, and if you wind up loving one, try and buy it, then try not to sell it so you won't have to attempt to buy it back for 23 years.....

gilded

welcome to LTG SFR, and congrats to your great taste in guitars. any pictures and soundfiles?

let me add my experiences. around 7 or 8 years ago I lusted for a semi-hollow guitar which I had always wanted but never owned and didn't think about guild at all. I tried every semi-hollow guitar in every shop within reach for about 2 months. But neither, Gibson, Heritage, Duesenberg, Ibanez, Höfner, or some other brands had a guitar that really kicked me. no matter how high the prize none of them had it. It is also true that I had a special wood combination in mind: maple neck, ebony fretbord, maple laminated body. and no guitar had this combination.
then I found a Guild SF-4 limited run from 1990 with exactly this combination for sale in my town. I went to check her out - and I was lost. the sound and playability was exactly what I was looking for. I bought it and the guild virus infected me and she became my main player. I have played a lot more other semi-hollow guitars later, but none was as good as my guild, maybe some Duesenbergs are close or an old 60's ES-330 a friend of mine owns or his old GUIlD DE-400. but this is a different beast :wink: .
I traded her for my carr-amp last year, and still might buy her back, if I had some coins left. but since I have found my nightingale, the urge is not this bad. :wink:

ES-335 and sf-4/5/6 are similar but not equal. each of them has a special tone, the guild only more special with a nicer twang. for my taste it is the better choice, especially if you don't want to sound like the typical hollowbody player, and don't want to spend 2-3 grands more for a guitar with equal qualities.

I have a '76 SF-4 with the block inlays, harp tailpiece, HB-1's and a beautiful natural mahogony finish. I love that guitar. I've played a lot of guitars over the years and I've had $100 guitars that sing and $1,000 guitars that suck. My choice for picking my Guild over the Gibson is based on a few things. Every Guild I own seems built like a fortress and I respect the quality that goes into them. Another reason is I enjoy playing something different then everyone else is playing. Lastly, you can still (for now at least) get a GREAT Guild for a fraction of the price of a similar Gibson. I'm sold on Guild.

It's hard to generalize. How you answer depends on which specific guitars you've played. My experience is with a '66 ES-335, much later, with a '75 Starfire VI.

My SF VI may not be typical of the breed. Lots of classy appointments, including that ebony fingerboard, push this guitar somewhere the SF IV might not go. But still close enough. This Guild strikes me as more imposing - solid, built, big physical presence - than my ES-335. First thought when I picked it up was, it's heavier, it feels like a "pro" instrument. Tonally, it is rather different. Some similarity in the middle position, but the neck only and bridge only show off the unique sound of those old pickups. Not better or worse than the pre T tops in my ES-335, just different. Louder. Big, wide sound. Goes from jazzy to nasty, depending on volume and attitude. This particular instrument is a very smooth, natural player. One of the best fingerboards I've played.

My ES-335 is lighter, has a stripped-down, ready-to-go vibe I felt right from the start. It kinda jumps in your hands and plugs itself in. Very well worn and well played. After owning it now for better than 15 years, I can see why. With new frets, it's one slick player. Everybody talks about the 1 9/16 neck of those years. I didn't even notice that until years after I bought it. Of course it doesn't feel as spacious as the Guild. It's even more responsive, the kind of guitar you play hard. Tonally, those Gibson p/us have long been my reference for ideal HB tone. Not that loud, but oh so sweet. The middle position is different than the SF. Hard to explain. The bridge only setting is magic here. One of the prettiest HB sounds ever.

It's a close call. If I had to choose between these, it'd be the ES-335. Thinking of all the ES-335s I've tried and generalizing, the Guild wins ... I haven't played any other 335s that have that entirely comfortable, lived in feel and sound. Tonally, this 335 is hard to beat. Except I plugged the SF VI into the tweed twin again recently, realized this guitar has depths I haven't explored yet. A big, tough sound I have yet to hear on stage. So my opinion might just change.
MD

For a short while I owned a walnut finish 335 that I got in the early 80s. don't know how old it was but as soon as I played it I noticed the bell like crystal, sound that was totally beautiful...I mostly play acoustic..but sure wish I still owned this beauty...long admired Guilds of course, but never actually played an electric.... Steffan

Of course, the SFIV! Besides every other similarity or difference, at least on the Guild the output jack is rim-mounted -- where it belongs!

Bob Arbogast

Bob Arbogast said:

Of course, the SFIV! Besides every other similarity or difference, at least on the Guild the output jack is rim-mounted -- where it belongs!

Bob Arbogast

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You're right Bob! The other thing that heavily weights it to the SF is the master volume. What a handy little device. Set it and forget it on the other four knobs, when you have the MV to adjust.
MD