High prices of the new Guilds; maybe should shop around.

Dennis M

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I just played for the first time today, a new F-30R and a new F-40. These are from the new factory in Connecticut. I was impressed with both instruments. They are part of the new “GSR” series. The F-30R had some nice inlay, much like the F-50 and D-55.
Both guitars had a nice price tag to go with the glam and glitz. Around $2000 for each. Which caused me to wonder, if I am going to lay out that much for an acoustic guitar, then I am going to shop around a bit, before I just go with a Guild.
Which makes me ask, why do we love our Guilds? Is it because the old ones sound so good, and at the time, at a great price? I know that's why I purchased my first; it was much cheaper than what I really wanted, which was a D-28, but couldn't afford it. And yes, it did sound really good, and still does.

There is nothing like the sound of an old Guild D-35, or D-40 for that matter, and you can still get these babies for a few hundred dollars, just under a thousand in most cases. I love the trio, which includes a dusty old 1970s F-212, that sits in my house today. Got them for a good price, and, yes, they sound fantastic. I could go on and on, but my point here is . . .

The new ones are really pricey, up there with Bourgeois (sp?), Larivee, even some Martins, etc. Do we want these new models, pay the high prices just because they are Guilds, out of loyalty to the old name, or should we shop around for the guitar that really speaks to us.
If I am going to shell out that much money, then I will shop around, try different brands. That is how I chose my D-50 back in 1982. Had a budget, and tried about a dozen different models, and narrowed it down to the one I have today.

Just my humble opinion.

Dennis M
 

bluesypicky

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And your opinion is shared Dennis.
It is obvious that as Guild lovers, we would all like to see the brand carry on with panache :wink: , but it is also certain that the price range at which Guild is now positioned on the market, is raising the bar too high for many, regardless of how good they sound, and from what I've personally witnessed, they do sound good and are beautifully crafted.
But as you pointed out, so do our beloved Westerlies, and for a fraction of the price.
I, for one, enjoy variety, (or is it "suffer from acute GAS syndrome"?) and certainly couldn't afford "treating" my condition with N.H. Guilds....
 

FNG

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Try finding a Martin D-28 with Adi spruce top for the same price as a D-50 Bluegrass Special. And if you find a new Bourgeois for the same price as a comparable Guild, let us know!
 

Default

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OTOH, for somebody like me, well....
I want a 512. And buying one new would be something really special. It would probably be the nicest thing I've ever owned, so paying some scratch for what will be the only brand new guitar I want would be ok.
 

Ian

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Probably also a reflection that we are used to paying second hand prices for our Guilds. No question that you certainly get better bang for your buck buying a second hand guitar, be it a Guild, Martin , Gibson or whatever. Ovations in particular are ex value second hand (over here anyway...). I cant afford to buy new, so its a moot point for me anyway.
 

Ridgemont

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FNG said:
Try finding a Martin D-28 with Adi spruce top for the same price as a D-50 Bluegrass Special. And if you find a new Bourgeois for the same price as a comparable Guild, let us know!
+1
I have been saying this for a while now. Guild, while becoming more expensive, is still significantly less than the nearest comparison. A D40 will run you about $2200 while a D18 golden era will be about $3400.
 

West R Lee

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I couldn't agree more. I know what brought me to be a Guild lover was the super value we got for the price in the old days. Being so relatively inexpensive, and performing at least as well, and in most cases, better than the high dollar guitars, made Guild sort of the underdog, and almost universally accepted as underrated. Now it seems that value is gone. Not to say the new ones aren't great guitars, I'm sure they are nice....the few I've played seemed to have been, they're simply not the value they once were.


And here's a Guild D50 and a Martin D28 comparison (unless you're hung up on the type spruce)....both new guitars.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Martin-D-28-D28-Dre ... ?pt=Guitar

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Guild-USA-D50-B ... ?pt=Guitar

West
 

GardMan

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Just to throw in another wrinkle...

I've bought a goodly number of Guilds for good prices of eBay in the last couple years, but I always considered my '72 D-35, bought in Jan '73 for $265 (plus another $35 for a hard shell case), to be my best "deal"... as in my least expensive Guild.

That is, until I sat down one day and used published inflation rates to figure out what I paid for it in 200X dollars (I did this a couple years ago, but can't remember when). Although I don't remember the exact dollar amount, as I recall the $265 I spent way back when translated to somewhere near $1600 now. Not that far off the street price one would expect for a new model below the D-40...

The way I look at my D-35 now... "(insert another Guild here): $500-$1,000. My 1972 D-35 that I have loved and played for 37 years, through college, grad school, marriage, divorce, and marriage again: PRICELESS!"
Dave
 

West R Lee

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GardMan said:
Just to throw in another wrinkle...

I've bought a goodly number of Guilds for good prices of eBay in the last couple years, but I always considered my '72 D-35, bought in Jan '73 for $265 (plus another $35 for a hard shell case), to be my best "deal"... as in my least expensive Guild.

That is, until I sat down one day and used published inflation rates to figure out what I paid for it in 200X dollars (I did this a couple years ago, but can't remember when). Although I don't remember the exact dollar amount, as I recall the $265 I spent way back when translated to somewhere near $1600 now. Not that far off the street price one would expect for a new model below the D-40...

The way I look at my D-35 now... "(insert another Guild here): $500-$1,000. My 1972 D-35 that I have loved and played for 37 years, through college, grad school, marriage, divorce, and marriage again: PRICELESS!"
Dave

I'll bet a D28 Martin was more than $265 back then Dave.

West
 

GardMan

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West R Lee said:
I'll bet a D28 Martin was more than $265 back then Dave. West

I'll bet you're right... anyone know what an "entry level" Martin mahogany dread (I haven't a clue what model that would be) sold for in '73? D
 

Jeff

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High prices of the new Guilds; maybe should shop around

Yep, Westerlies are a bargain.

In defense of new Guild prices, take a look at what Taylor's asking for their better models. 3K+ for an upscale Taylor is pretty common.
 

West R Lee

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taabru45 said:
That would be a D 18. Steffan

Steffan, That eBay example of a New D50 I posted should melt your butter in particular......$800 you said you paid. Look up a couple of posts and click on the D50 link.

West
 

taabru45

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West R Lee said:
taabru45 said:
That would be a D 18. Steffan

Steffan, That eBay example of a New D50 I posted should melt your butter in particular......$800 you said you paid. Look up a couple of posts and click on the D50 link.

West


Pretty darn happy with my 'new' D50 West...After taxes shiipping, everything About $1500. I like the sunburst but actually more of a natural top kinda guy. :wink: .....and why are you up???? Do you want to end up like me??? :roll: Steffan
 

jgwoods

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I paid $300 for my Martin D28 in '70 and it came with a case so that's the same deal as your D50 for $265 +$35 for the case.
Given the resale value of the D28 I got the better deal.

Recently I paid $2350 for a GSR-F40 and thought it was a very good deal . The OP is saying around $2000 which would be a truly excellent deal on a $4400 list, $3349MAP guitar. Outstanding I think.

Many folks love their Guilds because the bought them used for short money. For the owner of one bought new for a fair price that is an issue as the lesser resale value of Guild vs Martin, Gibson, etc. means you take more of a loss when selling, if selling.

I d intend to keep my Guild, but I do worry just a bit about resale value if I choose to sell in a financial crunch.
 

bluesypicky

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guitardude said:
No question that you certainly get better bang for your buck buying a second hand guitar, be it a Guild, Martin , Gibson or whatever.
Hey Ian,
Ever checked the prices of the 60's and 70's Gibson and Martin?.....
Very few under 1k..... :?
 

chazmo

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Dennis,

From where I sit, I think there's still value in the new Guilds. The Martin equivalent (Grand J12-40E Special) of an F-512 is at least 30% higher in street price. That's perhaps the widest disparity you'll find in direct Martin comparisons (I'm talking new guitars here, of course). Was the gap wider in the Westerly years? I don't know. I think the gap has narrowed on a lot of the models though; I'll agree with that.

By the way, in your case you were trying out GSR models which you were rather lucky to find. There are only 20 or so of each of these GSRs, and they are intended to give the shop a chance to show off a little. In addition to the ones you tried, there is a GSR F-50 made out of koa wood. I think for the price, these are excellent values, although clearly not on the low-end.

I think what you guys feel is missing is the budget level. As thin an argument as it is, I will point out that Guild today builds products in China and Mexico, and those products represent the true budget products for Guild. Is a GAD-25 today as good a value as a Westerly D-25? I'm not sure I can answer that question objectively, but I think I know how most of us feel here on LTG. How about comparing a DV-4 today (Ensenada) with a DV-6 from Westerly...

I will also mention that I think the Guild shop folks understand the compression issue and are trying hard to find the right niche(s). The forthcoming Standard Series in my mind represents a potentially very high value. Of course, there's nothing to discuss yet on that front, but we'll hopefully see its introduction in late-Sep. - Oct.

I guess my point is that Guild today is, as we know, not the same as it was during the Westerly era. There are no electrics, archtops, or basses to talk about, and the product line that's actually built in the USA now is essentially a fraction of what it once was. The New Hartford folks are acutely aware of all this, and I'm optimistic that they will find a path for Guild.

All that said, Dennis makes an extremely valid point. Is the passion and vision currently residing in New Hartford going to produce a competitive and sustainable guitar company? Will Guild find the right marketing equation with all this?
 

fronobulax

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Dennis M said:
I just played for the first time today, a new F-30R and a new F-40. These are from the new factory in Connecticut. I was impressed with both instruments. They are part of the new “GSR” series.

Part of the high price is because you were looking at GSR. The GSR designation applies to special instruments made in small runs. IIRC the two GSR F-30 editions were limited to less than 20 guitars each. The "bearclaw" GSR F-30 seems to have been priced above $3,000 although the one on eBay right now just had a price drop.

A "plain" F-30 has a list of $2,700. There is a new Tacoma F-30 on eBay right now in the $1,500 range. I have found one dealer who will offer 30% off of list just for asking and several people have reported 40% off or more.

Bottom line is that you should expect to see high prices if you are looking at GSR. Think of those as "limited edition, collectors item" kinds of objects. List prices also seem scary high but no one should expect to pay list and so the street price should be much more palatable.

That said, one of the conundrums with New Hartford Guilds is that, in a value focused market, their steepest competition comes from the used and vintage Guilds. So, even at a street price around $1500 is a new, New Hartford F-30 a better value than a used F-30 for a couple hundred less? You have to answer that for yourself :wink:
 

bluesypicky

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As usual, for the most part, Frono is correct. :lol:
But the quote below is really what the whole debate is about and I have voiced my opinion on this conundrum already. (Clue: I just added a 79 F-30 to my collection, not for a couple hundred less than Frono's suggested street price of $1500-which is where the "most part" comes from :wink: - but half.....)
fronobulax said:
That said, one of the conundrums with New Hartford Guilds is that, in a value focused market, their steepest competition comes from the used and vintage Guilds. So, even at a street price around $1500 is a new, New Hartford F-30 a better value than a used F-30 for a couple hundred less?
That said, I totally understand the excitement factor triggered by the "newness" of a guitar, and I'm happy for guitar manufacturers that not everybody comes on the market with the same purchasing approach as I do!
 

fronobulax

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I find the debate amusing but note that the choices are all out of my hands. The next guitar I expect to purchase will be a "normal" F-30 made in New Hartford for Mrs. Fro. It will be a sentimental and luxury item and "new" and "New Hartford" will trump any considerations of value. (LMG 2010 certainly succeeded as a marketing tool in this case). IIRC it may actually end up being the first "new" guitar she has ever owned. As soon as "value" enters the equation the body size difference is about the only reason to consider replacing the D-25.
 
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