X-170 v Starfire IV/4

Hi

I'm looking for info regarding the differences in tone and playability of the X-170 and the semi-hollow Starfires. I'm thinking pre-Fender as I ask the question. I am kind of opening my sonic palate beyond my past history of classic rock playing, have always had a predisposition towards blues and admire, but don't yet relate deeply to jazz playing. So - as I think of my first archtop, I want something that will give me satisfaction in my wheelhouse (rock and blues) and the jazz tones are an extra that I'll probably pursue on a more casual basis.

So, what do you think? Do I sound like a guy who wants to buy an SF IV, an X170 or something else entirely?

Thanks for any thoughts and experiences you have to share.

I say starfire 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6.

While the X170 usually has a soundpost under the bridge, I'd say the SF-IV would have more sustain with thinner strings used for bending Blues licks.

While an X-170 can go louder than my X-150, which suits them for louder venues than I play, I think by the time there's overdrive goin' on and Rock volumes, the SF-IV will give you less trouble with feedback.

My take on X-170's is that they were trying for some Gretschy sounds without losing much hollowbody vibe. 'Coarse, with a wood bridge there's also some jazz available.

WAY different sound/feel/guitars.

The SF4 is a much bluesier sounding guitar. More balls if you will. Throatier, meatier.

The X170 is more... polite. Airier. It sounds... hollower.

I love 'em both. If you want a good compromise between them, get a SF3. Fully hollow but thinner like a 4. Still not as raunchy as a 4, but closer - especially in 'hog.

If you're used to classic rock, the SF4 will be a smoother transition for you. A regular X170 (No Guildsby) will be warmer - jazzier sounding. Great for rolling off the treble and comping cords. An X170T with the bright orange and Guildsby will let you get your Brian Setzer on, but it falls a bit short without the TV Jones pickups.

SF4 is a much heavier guitar due to the center block. The X170 is close because it's deeper. The SF3 is a featherweight.

Playability wise, the SF4 will be an easier transition. The X170 is thick an takes some getting used to if you're used to electrics - especially standing up. If you plan an acoustic, it's less of a big deal.

Neck joins at the 19th fret on a SF4 (60s models are different IIRC - never had one) and the 14th fret on an X170/SF3. That takes some getting used to. No biggie after a few months though.

I have 'em all. When I want to play the blues, I pull out my SF4, flip on the neck pickup, and enjoy.

Eric Clapton used a full body archtop with a Humbucker for a brief time, around 1969/1970.

Thanks for all the input. From what I’m hearing, the SF IV sounds like the beast for me (perhaps I don’t know what I’m missing, but the trem bar doesn’t seem super important to me). The SF II/III could also work well, but I’m wondering just how prone it would be to feedback on a loud stage (or practice room). I’d want to bring out and not just play it at home.

If I’m lusting for an SFIV (I am), my surfing suggests that I have a choice of (my labels here) true vintage 1960s-1970s, modern vintage (1980s), retro vintage (1990s), or re-issue (2001-on). Sounds as though the true vintage is the consensus favorite, with original Guild HB-1s; the retro vintage models built in Westerly with the SD-1s perhaps come in second. What about the 80s versions with the XR-7 (do I have that right?) p/ups? Any opinions on those? And are the re-issues recommended? Oh – and is it only the true vintage that have a master volume – I think I’d like that feature.

Final question – anyone got one they want to sell? I know, should probably post that under FS/FT, right?

I had a limited run 1991 sf4 with HB-1 which was outstanding in every way, I would buy it again If I had some spare money.
but from what I have learned here -because I never played one yet- the late 60's models with the small humbuckers are great, too (before 1966 the neckjoint was already at the 16th fret, later on the 18th). the 70's and 80's seem to be similar, but for most folks the XR-7 seem a bit too agressive in a starfire. I'd prefer a stop tailpiece to a harp-tailpece for a sf4 which means a later one then. :wink:
the late 90's and early 2000's have a thicker neck and body.

any corrections, gang?

Vintage Starfires have tiny necks. 1 5/8" with small cross sections. For my hands, the 90s Starfires are much more comfortable. http://www.gad.net/Blog/2010/06/24/guil ... c-guitars/

I've owned more than a few Starfires ranging from 1973 to 2000. My favorite sounding starfires are from the 70s with vintags HB1s. My favorite playing Starfires are the reissues in the mid-late 90s and early 00s.

Saw this ancient SFII on EBay and I must admit it sparks my interest. I've heard the the old dearmond PUPs are to die for and he says they are original. Don't know how walnut sounds v mahogany. Also - is the neck joint realy at the 16th fret? That might suck.

Didn't see anything about SFs this old in GADs awesome treatise on Starfires. Any thoughts?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

AfterGlo said:

Saw this ancient SFII on EBay and I must admit it sparks my interest. I've heard the the old dearmond PUPs are to die for and he says they are original. Don't know how walnut sounds v mahogany. Also - is the neck joint realy at the 16th fret? That might suck.

Didn't see anything about SFs this old in GADs awesome treatise on Starfires. Any thoughts?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

Click to expand...

count youself: fret 14. and walnut is only the finish color, wood is mahogany.

Ahhh, the finish color. There's too much I don't know, it seems.

You're right. Shoulda counted for myself. Too much covert looking during work makes for sloppy questions!

GAD said:

The SF4 is a much bluesier sounding guitar. More balls if you will. Throatier, meatier.

Click to expand...

Yeah this is definitely NOT what I need to hear to cure my GAS for a Starfire IV!

AfterGlo said:

Didn't see anything about SFs this old in GADs awesome treatise on Starfires. Any thoughts?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

Click to expand...

That's because I've never owned one. I make it a point of only writing about things for which I have direct experience. Sometimes I slip.

I can see you succumbing to the "I want a Starfire - ANY Starfire! NOW!" problem many of us have gone through.

My advice is to choose what you want and hunt for that model. Otherwise you'll buy the wrong one for you and end up selling it to one of us at a loss. Show of hands - who's done this? :lol:

Where are you located? Maybe we can hook you up with a chance to play some of these fine guitars.

I'm in western massachusetts, near UMass, and very much appreciate that offer. Please do let me know if you know of anyone/any place in the vicinity who's open to sharing a taste of Starfire with me!

I went through the same irrational process of "gotta have one" when I decided I had to have a Bluesbird and came away awful happy, leading to a serious expansion of my interest in guitars and the time I devote to playing them. But really, running out with no real plan is no way to run through life in the cash limited world I live in. So, again, thanks to all.

Best -- Steve

Well buy SOMETHING!

We need closure here man!

:twisted:

Just bought a fine cup of coffee to sustain me during this time of decision!

Blame GAD for blunting my impulsive nature (for the moment), but I will, ultimately, buy and share that moment of gratification. I promise!