Exciting news: Standard Series and revival of an old friend

I will echo Chaz on sensory overload, so much to see and remember!

The Standard series twelve, as I thought I mentioned above, has enclosed, I presume cast, Gotoh tuners. My only basis for comparison would be to say similar to what you see on a non-Kluson-clone equiped Fender guitar, though with Gotoh branding on the back. The tuners were chrome, and not slotted like the old Fender Safety Tuners...which is a whole basis of discussion in itself!

The tuners work smoothly, as when I was secreted away I put the girl into Drop-D (can't blame Scott for THAT one...). I did return it to normal operation afterwards, in consideration of others...

I look at the new tuners as fancy-shmancy, and straying rather far from tradition, but I guess sound of the axe is the most important thing. Will be interesting to see these when they show up.

They're pretty happy with the quality of the Gotoh tuners, Steve. They also mentioned that they are lighter than the competition, particularly the open-back variations.

The question of tradition is a little complicated with respect to the tuning machines. Guild changed machines several times over the many years of production of some of the models based on what suited them best or was available at the time. No question that, for example, the slotted winding posts on the 12-string machines are a (cool) first for the Traditional Series, but 6-on-a-plate is definitely not new; it goes back to the '60s. Anyway, for Traditional Series 12-strings at least, the weight reduction of a dual-action (single) truss rod and open-back machines really helps.

Chazmo said:

As for the Standard Series cutaways, I don't know. We had an interesting conversation about DTAR during the Q&A, but I don't know whether they'll offer without electronics or not.

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I am somewhat hazy as well, but I think Dave went off on a flight of fancy about what the future might hold and he said something to the effect that some lines would have four models. Same basic body but with or without cutaway and with or without DTAR or comparable electronics. First they get the cutaway down and after that electronics (or not) are no big deal. That was definitely the vision. Which step happens next is certainly not clear to me.

They're pretty happy with the quality of the Gotoh tuners, Steve. They also mentioned that they are lighter than the competition, particularly the open-back variations.

The question of tradition is a little complicated with respect to the tuning machines. Guild changed machines several times over the many years of production of some of the models based on what suited them best or was available at the time. No question that, for example, the slotted winding posts on the 12-string machines are a (cool) first for the Traditional Series, but 6-on-a-plate is definitely not new; it goes back to the '60s. Anyway, for Traditional Series 12-strings at least, the weight reduction of a dual-action (single) truss rod and open-back machines really helps.

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For some reason the mini-Grovers just look right on a 12-string. Also not a fan of the 6-on-a-side at all. I also wonder what single truss rod means for the hallowed Guild 12-string. I always thought the beefy neck and dual rods contributed to the prodigious sound I was hearing.

steverok said:

I always thought the beefy neck and dual rods contributed to the prodigious sound I was hearing.

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We spent a fair amount of time watching necks get made. The new truss rod is some kind of double action rod and easier to adjust without destroying the neck than the two rod system. There are a couple of pieces of carbon laid in to stiffen the neck. Darren, who I believe had overall charge of the manufacturing processes, was proud of the fact that the neck was lighter but was stronger structurally. Curiously no one commented on whether the change to a single rod neck effected the sound, or not. However since the whole tour was infused with the idea of making the best guitar, I would have to believe no one on staff thinks the single rod is a step backwards in terms of the guitar's performance. Maybe someone with a new 12 will comment.

steverok said:

Chazmo said:

They're pretty happy with the quality of the Gotoh tuners, Steve. They also mentioned that they are lighter than the competition, particularly the open-back variations.

The question of tradition is a little complicated with respect to the tuning machines. Guild changed machines several times over the many years of production of some of the models based on what suited them best or was available at the time. No question that, for example, the slotted winding posts on the 12-string machines are a (cool) first for the Traditional Series, but 6-on-a-plate is definitely not new; it goes back to the '60s. Anyway, for Traditional Series 12-strings at least, the weight reduction of a dual-action (single) truss rod and open-back machines really helps.

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For some reason the mini-Grovers just look right on a 12-string. Also not a fan of the 6-on-a-side at all. I also wonder what single truss rod means for the hallowed Guild 12-string. I always thought the beefy neck and dual rods contributed to the prodigious sound I was hearing.

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I certainly do like the look of the mini Grovers on my Tacoma F-512, but the look of the Gotoh plate tuners is growing on me.

Charlie, unless I am very much mistaken, the tuners on the Standard twelve string would be chrome, enclosed "Mini-Gotohs," and not the open-back units. They look similar to...dare I say it...Mini Schallers. They ARE Gotohs, for I read that in the script insert covering the back.

They also showed us the new truss rod, which I might refer to as a "double-action" truss rod. To me, it looked similar to a Fender rod and could in fact be, I guess. They did say how there was additional material (graphite or carbon-fiber rods?) laid in the neck for extra strength.

I think I asked about the move away from Grovers, and the answer was a combination of lightening the headstock and that they thought the Gotohs were better quality.

Unless I am completely overwhelmed with all the guitars, which is possible... :?

No, you're right Bill. I'd veered into a discussion of the Traditional Series since we were talking about tuning machines.

So the new F212XL tuners were like the first picture near the bottom, on the left, chrome M6 style ?

http://www.lmii.com/carttwo/thirdproduc ... tring+Mini

That's more to my liking. I have been coveting an F212XL for some time. I actually owned one for a day, but it was cracked during shipping. It sounded awesome.

I am also curious about the headstock. I would think it would be the Chesterfield logo, and not the G-shield.

Pretty sure its the chrome M6. I believe the headstock has the angular GUILD underlined lettering, sort of like an old D25...

SEALED TUNERS! YAY! I LIKE SEALED TUNERS! NOW I can relax knowing I could probably buy another brand new Guild equipped just the way I want it!

I'll address the two truss rod vs. one rod as far as sound goes, at least as much as I can. My old F-212 has the dual rod, and except for a slight adjustment at the Hoboken shop in '67 or '68, it's been rock solid for 45 years. I'll have to wait until I'm 106 years old to see how the single rod stands up vs. it. However, the 512 has all the sound I've ever associated with a Guild 12, and even though I've never owned any other Guild 12 than my old one, I've played a number of them over the years.
As to the open back tuners vs. closed, about five years ago I bought an Epi Masterbilt with open back tuners-Grovers, I think, I'd have to dig it out and check. I was so impressed by them that I got two sets of Waverly open backs, planning on replacing the mini-schaller machines on my F212. They don't fit well, so that's why I was interested in the slotted Gotohs on the new 12s. If I had some gold plated Waverly tuners, I would definitely consider replacing the ones on my F-50 or D-50, probably not the Artist Award, though, the Imperials are really iconic.
As much as we love our Guilds, and as much as some of us have reverence for their history, remember the motto: made to be played. After all, guitars are really just tools used to produce music, and anything that helps that goal is good in my book.
Brad
PS My T-250 should be here tomorrow,so I'll have to change my signature again! It's the first solid body I've had in at least 30 years, probably closer to 40 when I had a Telecaster with an HB in the neck position.

Brad Little said:

I'll address the two truss rod vs. one rod as far as sound goes, at least as much as I can. My old F-212 has the dual rod, and except for a slight adjustment at the Hoboken shop in '67 or '68, it's been rock solid for 45 years. I'll have to wait until I'm 106 years old to see how the single rod stands up vs. it.

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That's how I always understood it, ever since my buddy got his JF30-12 in '88, the dual rods made for an "unwarpable neck". The tone was supposed to be a result of the body construction, even though I think now that the neck does play a part, at least in 6-stringers, because I can hear it and feel it on my D25.

Chazmo said:

but 6-on-a-plate is definitely not new; it goes back to the '60s. Anyway, for Traditional Series 12-strings at least, the weight reduction of a dual-action (single) truss rod and open-back machines really helps.

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My F-212 had six on a plate Kluson tuners when I bought it. I posted a picture of them on here a while back. I replaced them with mini-Schallers about 10 years ago, and the additional weight on the headstock was very noticeable, that's why I inquired about getting a set of the slotted Gotohs.
BTW, the open back tuners on a new F512 work very well.
Brad

chicagowineguy said:

MMM a chance for a brand new F30R at a reasonable price?

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Do these new F30's have a standard or short scale length?

dogberry said:

chicagowineguy said:

MMM a chance for a brand new F30R at a reasonable price?

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Do these new F30's have a standard or short scale length?

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Oooh, I don't know. The F-30R GSR felt full scale to me, but again, sensory overload....

Chazmo said:

dogberry said:

chicagowineguy said:

MMM a chance for a brand new F30R at a reasonable price?

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Do these new F30's have a standard or short scale length?

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Oooh, I don't know. The F-30R GSR felt full scale to me, but again, sensory overload....

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Mrs. Fro. and Grot both played the standard F-30 and neither commented about the scale length so I would presume (in Mrs. Fro's case) it was the same or very close to a D-25.

Numbers! We need numbers!

What do you consider "standard" and "short" scales?

The Guilds of Grot said:

Numbers! We need numbers!
What do you consider "standard" and "short" scales?

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AS far as guitars I can only remember ever seeing 2 on Guilds: 25-5/8" and 24-3/4".
Frono has referred to shortscale basses, and when I went to do a little research I realized there aren't any bassses on the Westerlyguildguitars site! :shock: