Ultimate Guild Jazz Box

o.k., this is a *very* dangerous question for me to ask, in light of the guitar researching and buying binge i've been on for several months now. my most recent, a 1967 Starfire V, as most of you know from my other thread(s).

what would be *the* Guild jazz box to get, comparable in style and function to a Gibson L-5 CES type model? doesn't necessarily have to be top shelf, i guess; just using that as a frame of reference. and not wanting to pay $5,000 - $7,000 for an L-5, how much can i expect to pay for a Guild jazz box of reasonable quality, in reasonable shape...?

vintage | used | new... i don't care; it's all good.

thanks in advance to the jazz hounds,
.rich

I've owned all of these at one time or another and I'm speaking only for the way I play. It makes a difference whether you play in a combo or solo, recording or live. Best combo (reasonable voluum) guitar. x-500 Best solo Artist Award (preferably with the monkey stick DeArmond). X-700 is great but too resonant for combo work (for me) and the top dampening mounted pickups was less appealing than the pickguard mounted alternative. I've heard that the Benedetto's are superior to the predecessors but don't know from personal experience. A nice X-175 is an excellent all round choice. And then there's the x170 and x180. Hell, truth be told I love them all and you should get one of each. But, that doesn't help much does it.

I would look seriously at the X-175 if you select one with the neck width you like. You'll find these with a 1 5/8s nut. Give it a try even if you think you don't like it. I did and now I can't part with it though I like a wider neck for the most part. The X-500 is a super do it all guitar.

guitarslinger said:

A nice X-175 is an excellent all round choice. And then there's the x170 and x180. Hell, truth be told I love them all and you should get one of each. But, that doesn't help much does it.

Click to expand...

well, it does help... make things more dangerous. 8)

i'll probably have to resist buying one of each, but i very much appreciate your insight.
i'd be looking primarily at solo, or guitar / vocalist duet, maybe a small combo if i get back into that.
no large combo / big band stuff at this point.

thanks again for your thoughts. i'll now start the "dangerous digging around" process...

I play my X-50 in an amateur jazz band, it sounds great, but I would not say it's the "ultimate". If you are looking for the "ultimate" jazz box, IMHO it would be an Artist Award. Our own guildzilla has one on eBay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1990-Guild-Artist-A ... 20af483b27

walrus

My vote is for the X500 or X700

ac1dt3st said:

o.k., this is a *very* dangerous question for me to ask, in light of the guitar researching and buying binge i've been on for several months now. my most recent, a 1967 Starfire V, as most of you know from my other thread(s).

what would be *the* Guild jazz box to get, comparable in style and function to a Gibson L-5 CES type model? doesn't necessarily have to be top shelf, i guess; just using that as a frame of reference. and not wanting to pay $5,000 - $7,000 for an L-5, how much can i expect to pay for a Guild jazz box of reasonable quality, in reasonable shape...?

vintage | used | new... i don't care; it's all good.

thanks in advance to the jazz hounds,
.rich

Click to expand...

If you want the most direct-comparing model, you're looking for an X-700. Both it and the L-5 are fairly equivalent in overall trim level, both are carved solid spruce top guitars with two humbuckers mounted in holes cut in said tops, maple back/sides/neck/ebony fretboard. I think you'd find them fairly different sounding guitars, especially depending on age of the L-5, but on just a similarity factor, the X-700 is the closest.

I don't know what those run used these days, but I'd guess around $1,700 or so, which is a lot of guitar for the money?

The only other carved top Guild is the Artist Award, which would equate more to a Johnny Smith model Gibson (and the Artist Award started life as the Johnny Smith Award model) in that it's carved top w/ a floating pickup. Theoretically less versatile, but more acoustically sound, since it doesn't have the pickup holes compromising the top. (I've never played one) You'll shell out more bux, tho!

walrus said:

I play my X-50 in an amateur jazz band, it sounds great, but I would not say it's the "ultimate". If you are looking for the "ultimate" jazz box, IMHO it would be an Artist Award. Our own guildzilla has one on eBay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1990-Guild-Artist-A ... 20af483b27

walrus

Click to expand...

well, it's good to know what the luxury sedan model is, but that doesn't mean i won't end up with more of an economy coupe. just starting a preliminary check into my options.

kakerlak said:

I don't know what those run used these days, but I'd guess around $1,700 or so, which is a lot of guitar for the money?

Click to expand...

thanks for your input. and yes, that's a hell of a lot of guitar for the money, especially considering an L-5 of any quality seems to run about $5K minimum.

how would you qualify the "fairly different sounding" factor...? i've heard the Guilds are slightly "brighter" sounding instruments than the Gibson archtops...

ac1dt3st said:

kakerlak said:

I don't know what those run used these days, but I'd guess around $1,700 or so, which is a lot of guitar for the money?

Click to expand...

thanks for your input. and yes, that's a hell of a lot of guitar for the money, especially considering an L-5 of any quality seems to run about $5K minimum.

how would you qualify the "fairly different sounding" factor...? i've heard the Guilds are slightly "brighter" sounding instruments than the Gibson archtops...

Click to expand...

Mainly, I was refering to electric tone. The Guild humbuckers are great pickups, and do not seem to vary with era, wheras the Gibson ones vary quite a bit, depending on era, the late 70s being the worst, IMO. The very best of the Gibson humbuckers, or good replacemtns like Seth Lovers are great pickups, too. To my ears, the Gibson ones are a bit sweeter, with a little less definition b/w notes, whereas the Guilds are more articulate. It's probably true that the Guild pickups are a bit brighter also. The late 70s Gibson pickups are really dull and muddy sounding, though the guitars themselves are often pretty well made. It's been a long time since I've had my hands on an L5, so I can't speak much for it's acoustic tone, but that's probably a secondary concern to electric tone if you're shopping archtops with holes cut in them for pickups, anyway.

If I remember when I get home, I can post some pics of my first year X-700. They did a Benedetto redesign after Fender bought Guild and I don't know that I've played one of those.

ac1dt3st said:

i'd be looking primarily at solo, or guitar / vocalist duet, maybe a small combo if i get back into that. no large combo / big band stuff at this point.

Click to expand...

I like the carved tops with a floating pickup for solo/duet, small combos and generally smaller rooms (like the Artist Award). The audience primarily hears the wonderful acoustic sound of a carved archtop. The electronics are turned up just enough to reinforce and fatten up the sound and/or for stepping out on solos.

If you're playing in large combos, big bands and larger venues that require a higher volume level w/o feedback but still want to retain some of the acoustic airiness of a big-box archtop you'd want a laminated guitar w a set pickup. The audience will primarily hear the electric sound (like an X500, X175, X150).

Rik Wright explains it best:
http://www.rikwright.com/Content/Content.aspx?page=custom&pgid=280

AlohaJoe said:

ac1dt3st said:

i'd be looking primarily at solo, or guitar / vocalist duet, maybe a small combo if i get back into that. no large combo / big band stuff at this point.

Click to expand...

I like the carved tops with a floating pickup for solo/duet, small combos and generally smaller rooms (like the Artist Award). The audience primarily hears the wonderful acoustic sound of a carved archtop. The electronics are turned up just enough to reinforce and fatten up the sound and/or for stepping out on solos.

If you're playing in large combos, big bands and larger venues that require a higher volume level w/o feedback but still want to retain some of the acoustic airiness of a big-box archtop you'd want a laminated guitar w a set pickup. The audience will primarily hear the electric sound (like an X500, X175, X150).

Rik Wright explains it best:
http://www.rikwright.com/Content/Content.aspx?page=custom&pgid=280

Click to expand...

This is really true, the X-700 is somewhat silly in a way, to be honest. You spend all the man-hours carving a top, then cut two big rectangles in it and screw on a couple of humbuckers. What I'll say is that it makes for a nicer-sounding guitar to play in your lap than a laminate top, though not as nice as something with a floating pickup, but, for the kind of stuff I play, when/if I ever want to record w/ or gig w/ the guitar, I need a full-volume electric instrument. So I love mine for those reasons, it's kind of a compromise b/w bedroom/couch enjoyment and electric function.

I bet a laminated top wouldn't feed back as much, and the big X-700 will howl if you hold it right/wrong!

I just noticed that archtop.com lists a 17" blond 1976 Guild X-500 as having just arrived (and a '79 AA). His guitars tend to be very clean. It's not priced on the site yet, but if you write or call he will give you pricing info and pics if he has them.

http://www.archtop.com/ac_inst.html
Scroll down to 'coming soon'.

guitarlinger wrote

Hell, truth be told I love them all and you should get one of each. But, that doesn't help much does it.

Click to expand...

Never met a Guild jazz box I didn't like. And if I see deal, it's hard not to buy 'em.

I know some think the X700 is an enigma of sorts, but when playing solo, plugged in small venue, I love the string sustain (feedback?) that it has. Even my laminates tops have some feedback in band settings but I like to use it sometimes to carry the notes. Depending what kind of music you are playing , obviously, it can be a hindrance.

kakerlak said:

I don't know what those run used these days, but I'd guess around $1,700 or so, which is a lot of guitar for the money?

Click to expand...

If you can find an X-700 for $1,700 you better snap it up quick - or check that it hasn't been dropped! I would expect to pay an average of $2,500 - that's what I payed for mine April, 2009. On the high end, I've seen one for around $3,500. Though I have seen them as low as $1,999 (that's the bloke in the Los Angeles area that's been trying to sell his sunburst for a couple of years now; it has a crack compliments of UPS - he's been dropping his price steadly X-700 LA Craigslist).

When I was shopping for one, I saw one at at the 12th Fret that was around $2,000, but had condition issues (by the way, they are very nice people). I believe someone on this forum bought one for $1,600 and it was considered the "deal of the year" in Ebay.

It is a sweet guitar and I do love playing it, but so do I my X-500, my X-170, my X-150 and one day ... some way ... an Artist Award - and maybe I'll rob a bank too ... :wink:

If I could only have one jazz box, I think I'd opt for the X-500. It's the guitar I wanted when I bought my X-170, but my dealer didn't have an X-500 in stock and I couldn't wait the couple of weeks or so to get it because I had a gig going. That said, you can't go wrong with either the 170 or 500 if you intend to play electric. If you do need the acoustic end, I'd go for the Artist Award if you can swing the extra dollars over the X-700. I've never played a 700, but just don't like the idea of cutting holes and mounting pickups in a carved top. Seems like getting a Porsche 911 but replacing the engine with one from the old VW Beetle to me, just my opinion, though, might change if I spent time with one.
That said, I think I'll go play my AA!
Brad

AlohaJoe said:

I like the carved tops with a floating pickup for solo/duet, small combos and generally smaller rooms (like the Artist Award). The audience primarily hears the wonderful acoustic sound of a carved archtop. The electronics are turned up just enough to reinforce and fatten up the sound and/or for stepping out on solos.

Click to expand...

I can only dream of being a pro jazz player, and I'm far too old to make the dream happen.

But I am very much impressed with the tone and feel of my '69 A150 acoustic carved-top guitar with the floating Dearmond.