A Guild Starfire I inherited ...sort of... ( A lil long)

Hi All...

Im new to the forum and was looking for some help with regards to a Guild Starfire that I sort of inherited from my dad recently. No worries ...he is still with me...LOL! One day not too long ago I was visiting and my Dad said out of the blue "hey son take my guitar...you play and eventhough I know you want to wait until Im gone to take it you know Im never gonna play again it so why not use it and enjoy it"

The thing about my Dad is that he just loves to every so often try to give me stuff that he has that he knows I'd love and appreciate but in my heart I always would feel guilty taking from him so I always refuse and tell him "when yer gone.."

This time though he was persistent so I caved and took the guitar.

Here are some pics:









My Dad wanted his guitar to be unique so he etched his name nicely into the black finish in the pickguard and also replaced the original Starfire emblem on the headstock with a custom one featuring his initials.

The guitar has not been played for any great length for probably 20 years....I began playing when I was 16 or so and every so often Id play around with it strum a few chords but always was affraid of messing it up so Id quickly put it back in the case. Since Ive opened it up every so often when visiting to see how it looked and just admire it. Strum a lil and put it back.

I was hoping to get some help on dating the guitar..My Dad's memory is a lil fuzzy and he cannot remember when he got it...he says maybe 16. The guitar is stamped with serial # 13412 which based on some research would make this guitar probably around a 1960 model Can anyone confirm that for me? Is this a regular Starfire, or II, III, IV?

Another thing I was hoping to confirm....there seems to be a lot of discussion as to whether Starfires came with a Bigsby tremolo system featuring the Guild Name on it or simply a tremolo featuring the Bigsby emblem. Ive read several places that they came both ways but this is the only Starfire I've seen with the Bigsby Tremolo emblem on it. My Dad says it came with that tremolo system..he did not change it.

Can someone confirm if this could be original or whether it was maybe added by someone else...possibly the guitar dealer?

I know my dad did change the original tuning keys from the stock Grover tuners to a higher quality Grovers as evidenced by the extra holes left in the back of the headstock. He does not know what happened to the original tuning pegs so I cannot put them back without searching them on ebay.

As for the pick ups...Im not sure what model they are. Any info on these would be appreciated.

One major issue I have are the volume and tone knobs..They are original from what I have been able to determine. They have sort of stopped working, meaning that the pots are probably shot...when turning them up or down they barely do anything and they cause a tremendous amount of static ...when they do finally work they provide a tremendous amount of uncontrollable feedback ...it literally makes the guitar unplayable through an amp. Can anyone offer me any information on how difficult it would be to have these repaired and what an approximate cost to do so would be? Are the posts something that can be gotten at any instrument repair shop or are they special order? Would there be a need to make modifications to the guitar when doing the repair?

I hope you all enjoy the pictures and can help me with my questions on this fine guitar. I hope with the info gained especially with the volume and tone knob dilema I can get this beautiful instrument singing again as it did long ago.

Thanks!

That's a gorgeous guitar and one of the early Starfires. Hans should be along any moment to give you the definitive word, but it definitely is an early one.
The pots are easily replaced and shouldn't be terribly expensive. The howl could be either the hollow body or the pickups.
The pickups can be wax potted to reduce squeal, if that's what you're experiencing. If it's more of a "Purple Haze" kind of howl, it's the body's resonance which is causing it. It was produced for jazz, after all. Sometimes all you need is a longer cord.

That's beautiful! Congratulations, and welcome.

Gorgeous guitar and very cool that it will remain in your family. Welcome to the Guild family!

Redlands23 said:

I was hoping to get some help on dating the guitar..My Dad's memory is a lil fuzzy and he cannot remember when he got it...he says maybe 16. The guitar is stamped with serial # 13412 which based on some research would make this guitar probably around a 1960 model Can anyone confirm that for me? Is this a regular Starfire, or II, III, IV?

Another thing I was hoping to confirm....there seems to be a lot of discussion as to whether Starfires came with a Bigsby tremolo system featuring the Guild Name on it or simply a tremolo featuring the Bigsby emblem. Ive read several places that they came both ways but this is the only Starfire I've seen with the Bigsby Tremolo emblem on it. My Dad says it came with that tremolo system..he did not change it.

Can someone confirm if this could be original or whether it was maybe added by someone else...possibly the guitar dealer?

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Hello Redlands23,

Welcome! Nice guitar you have there!

As far as the dating is concerned you were correct; it's a guitar from 1960.
What the model is really depends on when the guitar left 'final assembly'. You may not understand what that means but if you will do a little searching around on this site and read up on some of the 'older' posts you will understand that there might be a difference in serial number dating and actual instrument dating by specifications, which means when exactly a guitar was set up and consequently what model designation an instrument would get.

Anyway, from what I can see in the photos and what I've learned about Guilds from this period your guitar is most likely a T-100C-DP. It may have a 'Starfire' ink stamp somewhere on the label. These are kind of 'transition' models when Guild was trying out an upgrade from the popular T-100(D), which would eventually become the single cutaway Starfire I, II and III. Basically, the first Starfire guitars were T-100(D) 'superstructures' with a different finish, different pickups and slightly different hardware.

Even though the Bigsby B-3 unit could have been an original feature, I don't think it was done at the factory. It was probably mounted by the wholesaler for that particular area or ordered separately by the dealer. If it was original it would have had the aluminum Bigsby bridge instead of the AdjustoMatic bridge, which by the way was already a Starfire feature.
So, after looking at all these features I believe that the guitar started out as a Cherry finished T-100 with double pickups, that was 'transformed' into a Starfire II or III when the order came in. I hope this doesn't sound confusing but that would have been a normal procedure at the time.

Let me know what written and/or stamped information you can read on the label.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Very cool guitar!!!

Hans, wouldn't a Bigsby of this era have had a philips screw to attach the arm?

Redlands23 said:

Im new to the forum

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Welcome. I see you have already posted pictures :wink: and Hans has addressed your questions so "welcome" is about all I can contribute.

Walter Broes said:

Very cool guitar!!!

Hans, wouldn't a Bigsby of this era have had a philips screw to attach the arm?

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Hello Walter,

Yes, that's correct and that's why I stated that I didn't think it was done at the factory. But since we do not know when the Bigsby was put on the guitar ( if that was done by the wholesaler or the dealer) it could have been a Bigsby without the non-Phillips screw if it was done a year after that. I've seen several short Bigsby (B-3) guitars from that period and they usually had the non-Phillips variety. See also photo of the 1961 CE-100 on page 37 of The Guild Guitar Book.

At this point it's all speculation but it is definitely a cool guitar!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

welcome and congrats to this beautiful guitar.

That's an awesome guitar. I wouldn't bother going back to the original style tuners, the ones you have work better, and why second guess Dad ? Clearly the man is cool, after all.

Those pickups are a bit hotter output than the more usual white top Dynasonics. To avoid feedback with those on a hollowbody, the easy way is simply to use a smaller amp and/or keep the guitar body away from the amp. The way those pickups are made, there really isn't any space around the coil that can be filled with wax like you can do with other pickups, the pickup is glued into the case already, and you'd gum up the height adjustment if you put wax on the back.

I suppose you could try putting a little rubber tubing around the mounting screws between the top of the guitar and the pickup case, or make some felt or other cushioning rings to fit in the same space, that might help a bit. I've got two of those pickups in two different fully hollow guitars. They both feed back fairly easily. But I still like 'em. On one of those guitars, a SFIII which is basically what your guitar is, I put in a piece of 1/2 inch dowel between the top and back (right next to the bridge pickup cutout) as a soundpost held in only by tension to provide more headroom before the guitar body starts to resonate. So that's another thing you could do.

teleharmonium said:

Those pickups are a bit hotter output than the more usual white top Dynasonics.

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Isn't that the other way around :?: I have one in my parts bin, and it measures out at 6K, and the magnets are almost twice as short as a Dynasonic's...
Hard to imagine anything seriously hotter than those white topped Guild Dynasonics btw - the ones I have are 12 and 13K!

Another bit of info, it's possible that the pickup switch has openned up from non-use. When I started playing again (about 30 years of not playing), I had intermittant connection and then no connection. I removed the pickup switch and cleaned it with contact cleaner. It makes perfect contact now. I think I have similar issues with some of the volume/tone pots and plan (someday) to pull them out and clean them the same way.

Walter Broes said:

teleharmonium said:

Those pickups are a bit hotter output than the more usual white top Dynasonics.

Click to expand...

Isn't that the other way around :?: I have one in my parts bin, and it measures out at 6K, and the magnets are almost twice as short as a Dynasonic's...
Hard to imagine anything seriously hotter than those white topped Guild Dynasonics btw - the ones I have are 12 and 13K!

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The ones I have sound like they're hotter than a typical Dyna, but then Dynas vary, they seem to have gotten hotter on average over the years until the late 60s. I have two of those earlier style white tapered top pickups installed in two different guitars, both in the neck position, they're both really loud and prone to feedback. One of those guitars, also has a Dyna in the bridge; we all know that a neck position pickup all other things being equal is louder than a bridge position because the string oscillation is wider there, but still, I know how much of a volume difference to typically expect when two of the same pickups are in a guitar when you flip from the bridge to the neck, and on that guitar, switching to the neck position feels like you also clicked on a boost pedal for a solo. (Which is nice when you are going to take a solo.)

I also have two of those pickups that aren't currently in a guitar, I'll try to measure their coil resistance tonight. Then again, the magnets might be a different formula of alnico, and variable discharge rates of the magnets over time could be coming into play.

Another possibility is that the earlier ones could have been wound in a more chaotic way around the bobbin, compared to later pickups, if the winding machines got "better"/more stable later on at DeArmond, which would make their frequency response less linear; if there's a bunch of peaks and valleys in the EQ curve, especially if there are peaks in the midrange, that might partly account for the propensity for feedback and the perception of loudness.

HI Redlands, welcome aboard!
That guitar is just plain awesome. You've already started getting input from the real electric players here, but I want to tell you that story is like the one about finding a mint 63 Corvette in someone's barn or something. Not sure what level of playing you're at but that guitar is up to anything anybody could dish out. Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead started out with one of those, he may not be your cup of tea musically but he sure knew what to look for in an instrument "back in the day". If for some reason you ever decide you want to sell it you will have absolutely no problem finding many people here who would be delighted to own it.
Your old man loves you and he must know you really love music or I suspect he wouldn't have insisted you take it over.
I don't have kids but I'm hoping my nephew will be ready for my Guilds when I can't lift 'em up anymore.
That guitar has serious vintage mojo, it's the real thing! You got the right idea, just bring it back to production spec, you don't need anything else!

I'm his long lost son. Can I have one too, please?

GREAT GUITAR..and GREAT STORY Redlands.........Welcome to LTG, and enjoy! Your Dad should be proud to see you taking up this fantastic guitar and restoring her to its former glories!! FANTASTIC!!!

MacAoidh said:

I'm his long lost son. Can I have one too, please?

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Brother! :lol: :lol: Steffan