Ebay Gibson GA-19RVT

Did any of you guys see this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Falcon-F...yZ118983QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I guess I can safely say that a tweed Gibson Falcon is now out of my price range.

Could the later Crestline models be wired to the tweed specs?

Thanks

Hi DpG and welcome to LTG; yes, I saw that ... eye-popping price! Pics of my (former) GA19RVT that I threaded and later offered for sale here:




Some typical mold stains on the far side and the upper back panel didn't match but still ................... $1,500 ... :shock: :shock: ??????

The answer to your question about re-wiring is ... maybe. Gibson made a couple of versions of the tweed amp; one with a 7199 reverb operator and another with a 6C4 .. believed to be the later models. At some point, they stopped the tweed version and started the 'Crest' model; also 3 X 6EU7 but with a 6C4 for reverb although apparently some of the early 'Crests' had 7199s also ... go figure :? . Finally, Gibson produced some 'Crest' models with 6V6s / 5Y3, some with 7591s / 5Y3, and the later in the line were 7591s/solid state rect.

The model in the pic above uses 3 6EU7s, one 7199, twin 6V6s, and a 5Y3 and I think this is the most common tweed configuration. There are several GA19 Falcon schematics; one tweed and at least two 'Crests'. So ... whether you can re-wire a Crest version back to a tweed version depends on what you have; if you have a 7591 model, it probably isn't worth the trouble. Looking at the schematics, there are several tweed v. 'Crest' differences:

Preamp cathode resistors are biased hotter,
Tone stack is re-designed, and
One input is high gain w/ a 1 meg input-to-ground resistor.

In the two schematics I have and except for the 7199 v. 6C4, the tremolo and reverb circuits are the same. Soooo ............ if you have a 6V6 'Crest' model ... you can do it. Will it sound the same ......... ???? :? :wink:

At one time, I had this tweed GA18 and the GA19RVT above. I reconditioned the GA18 - now owned by another BBer here - and reconditioned the GA19RVT with the absolute intention of knocking the GA18 off its perch as King of Tone Hill; try as I might, I never got the GA19RVT to sound as rich and thick as the GA18. My copy was dark - and I like dark - but almost to the point of brooding ... never did figure out why ... maybe the Weber 12A125 was born dark ... also thought its was the 6EU7s (the GA18 runs on 12AX7s) but since then I've owned several 6EU7 Gibson amps and that wasn't it ... both had new/newer JJs ...

The short of it is that if you can live without the built-in reverb, good quality GA18s are more plentiful, less expensive, and, at least to me, better-sounding. If you want the GA19RVT schematics, send me a PM with your email address and, again, welcome to LTG! John

DpG said:

Did any of you guys see this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Falcon-F...yZ118983QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I guess I can safely say that a tweed Gibson Falcon is now out of my price range.

Could the later Crestline models be wired to the tweed specs?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Zowie! This is definitely the start of Gibbie amp price escalation. For piece of mind, I recently sold my little project Scout GA-17-RVT on my local CL. Everything was there except the foot pedal and reverb tank. Cabinet stripped of tolex. I was literally barraged by emails. It's not even known for anything special. My theory is that the net and availability of good books have propagated so much tube amp info nowadays that everyone wants to tinker.

FWIW I've read on the net about (but have never seen) Crestline Falcon mods to improve the tone. I think member LTGer leonc has done some of this. Never seen anything about modding to tweed specs. As already mentioned by our resident Gibbie expert, the good capn, you gotta find the right Falcon--most likely the early Crestline '63. They still seem to be around.

Don't know if you've seen it, but Superior Music's Vintage Gibson amp site is a good starting place for those seeking info.

It's been several years since I bought a few gibs, they were pretty reasonable then. I've been looking online, fleabay, etc. to determine values for selling them off and have been shocked to see the prices some of them are pulling. Sure, the asking prices in some cases are ludicrous, but the actual amount paid is pretty stunning as well! Now if only my guild amps had that kind of value!

Last year, you could have bought this tweed GA40 LP for $1,200 ... at the time, they were less than the two-tones that were running +/- $1,500. A couple of weeks ago, it went for $2,550 :shock:. Some Gibson prices from last year Here.

capnjuan said:

Looking at the schematics, there are several tweed v. 'Crest' differences:

Preamp cathode resistors are biased hotter,
Tone stack is re-designed, and
One input is high gain w/ a 1 meg input-to-ground resistor.

Click to expand...

Hi Juan; next time you might try paying attention ... the Tweed has the same resistor as as the Crest Way too much detail on this subject Here. John

Thank you all for the warm welcome. I came upon this site when I was trying to find info on the Guild 12 strings. I found a really nice Westerly F212XL and could not be happier with it.

Thanks John for all the info - I'll definitely be on the lookout for a GA-18.

I found and bought a GA-19RVT tweed! It's rough looking from the photos and I'm debating on whether or not to try to clean it up a bit.
Here's the link to it: http://www.chrisguitars.com/amp.html
It's about halfway down the page. I am really excited about getting this amp! If I'm correct in my research, there were just a little over two-hundred of these made.

Here's the video of the amp that got me started on all this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyG9lojGSNQ&feature=channel_page
This guy's skills are way beyond mine, but I think this is going to be a really inspiring amp! Just hope it gets to me in one piece. :?

Hi DgP; congratulations on the XL - a very fine guitar and your GA19RVT! This probably doesn't need to be said but I really liked the GA19; but it has a more complex circuit than the GA18 and the 19 was G's first 'student' amp with on-board reverb and tremolo; sadly - like the rest of the G product line - built to a cost, not a quality, standard. It was matched up against a nearly-mint, electronically-refreshed GA18 with a simple, effective Deluxe-style circuit - .... nothing in my comments on the 19 are criticism. The other-than-collector-grade GA18s, all things being equal, cost less than the GA19s. Yes; the best/only information available puts these in the 200-made range and yes, you should clean it up ... Wassa matta you :wink:

Yes; sadly shipping is a risk but it's a 3/4" plywood cabinet, smaller and lighter than our BBer's Superstar than was run through by a mounted knight who mistook the carton for a monster guarding the holy grail ... All I can tell you is that I've received and shipped a number of the same-sized, same-weight G amps without any problems. Some time ago after the fiasco with Coastie's amp (I was the shipper ... and also liquidated Coastie's damage claim), I took to putting 1/4" plywood or masonite or multiple layers of cardboard in in front of the grill thinking the knight might make the same mistake with my stuff. If your amp hasn't shipped yet, you might want to consider getting in touch with seller and ask him to do the same thing ... and, if he doesn't do anything else, pad the corners. If his reply is 'I know what I'm doing ... a/k/a ... mind your own business' ... offer to pay something extra.

Saw the pics of your amp and would call it fair/average condition. The filter cap work, the light-colored cylinders flying left/right and hot- or silicone-glued, that's the generic commercial fix ... compare them to my GA19; the blue cylinders racked snugly and safely in wiring strips in the lower-right section of the pic above ... as far as I'm concerned, it's how you know that love is real ..... Don't remember from the pics whether it has a 3-wire cord; if not, needs one. Most of the corrosion on the control panel will come off by sharpening a chopstick to a chisel-point, hold it at a 45 degree angle, and shove hard in short, abrupt strokes; that'll get most of it nearly to bare metal. Afterwards, don't keep the amp in the bathroom or spray chlorine or muriatic acid on it. Remember, the lettering is silk-screened on; once gone, that's it so be careful with it. The orange-brown mold comes at no extra charge ... and unless you know something no one else does, it's permanent but the tolex will withstand TSP, alcohol-based cleaners/de-greasers, naptha, and toluene but avoid denatured alcohol.

Again welcome and congratulations on your new amp; fingers crossed for safe transit. John

hahah...I thought that I was gonna nab that one for about 750.... :lol: I was only off by 100%!!! :shock:

Guess I'm getting close to scratching tweed and earlier Gibsons off of my list of amps I must check out...

Hi Leon; the eBay price of '59-'62 Gibson tweeds ran off the charts in the first two quarters of 2008; since then the few that have been offered have gone for big money ... like this one. Lots of interest now in the '50s models with octals in the preamps especially those with top-mounted chassis but the short of it is that this GA19 this year sold for what good-condition GA40 LPs sold for in 2008 ... bad news for Gibson fans everywhere ... John

DpG said:

... I'll definitely be on the lookout for a GA-18 ...

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Hi DgP; if the GA19RVT's price is an indicator, this very clean eBay GA18 is going to be 'spensive ... $1000 - $1,200? Last year, a museum-grade GA18 sold for $1,525 :shock:

capnjuan said:

DpG said:

... I'll definitely be on the lookout for a GA-18 ...

Click to expand...

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Problem is - I cain't afford one now!! :lol:

DpG said:

... Problem is - I cain't afford one now!! :lol:

Click to expand...

Hi DgP; welcome to the club! At this rate, within a few years, no one will be able to afford one :wink: J

Last flight of the Falcon; the model tanked along with the entire Gibson amp line in the mid/late 60s; eBay auction Likely 7591s with solid state rectifier.

I wanted to give you guys an update.

The amp arrived yesterday. It was very well packed, but when I got around to firing her up for the first time that evening, I found it not to be working. The pilot light comes on, but that's it - only dead silence. No hums , no buzzes - nothing.

I took the back panel off and checked the tubes. They all lit up, but it looks like the 5y3 rectifier tube isn't glowing as brightly as the others. The speaker wires were good. I changed cords, guitars and tried the other input - just silence. Luckily, I found a tech not too far from me that has experience with vintage amps. There's no telling what this stuff goes through in transit. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping it's something simple.

I did have a chance to get most of the crud off the control panel. John, that chopstick suggestion really did the trick! It looks a heck of a lot better than it did. The tweed is really dirty and I'd like to try to clean that up a bit as well.

Trying to stay positive, but you know how it is. If everything ran smoothly, you'd never learn how to stand on yer toes!

Hi DgP; glad it showed up in one piece ... that's half the battle. Compared to Marshalls and most of the modern high-powered amps, the GA19 is a model T ... code for easy to work on. You can dis is it for not having a lot of features but those features are the achilles heels of shredding amps. Don't despair about the trip to the tech; there isn't anything in there that's especially complicated and if it's something like filter caps, well, they'd have to have been done sooner or later anyway.

The darkish, orange-brown stains are there to stay; understood to be a mold caused by the water in the water-based tolex glue reacting with either mold on the cabinet or in the cotton backing. Some of the crud will come off with TSP or TSP-substitute; clean a little area, dry, go to next area and whatever is petroluem-based grease or whatever will come off with naphta, paint thinner, or alcohol. I looked again at the pics on Chris' site; all things equal, pretty fair condition - yes, the tolex is stained but it's all there and the corners are in pretty good shape. Fingers crossed for a pain-free down-and-back to the amp tech's.

Depending on how anal (or bored) you are, you can buy some Flitz metal polish, take those preamp tube covers off - sometimes steel sometimes aluminum - and clean them up ... one my GA20Ts below:



... I guess I'm anal and bored. :wink: John

Problem solved! And an unexpected one.

I took the amp in to a tech today and everything checked out perfectly. The "problem" was that someone had installed a standby switch on it! So when the switch was flipped to the "on" position as indicated on the control panel, it was actually in standby. The off position is straight up and the true on position is the switch flipped back toward the rear of the amp. I didn't figure it out cause I wasn't willing to manhandle the switch.

Thank goodness for simple solutions! The tech didn't even charge me to check it out. Of course I'll be back to do business in the future.

Hey John, the innards on your GA-20T sure are pretty! 8)

Hi DgP; thank goodness for easy fixes! Back in the day, the electrical switch biz supported off/on/on. I have a GA30RV and it has the old style off/on/on switch for off/standby/on. Maybe some 5 year old got drunk one night while his daddy was playing guitar, took the back panel off, and starting licking the switch contacts and didn't get to be a 6 year old ... who knows.

But, in any event, the biz no longer supports off/on/on and you can only buy on/off/on switches which I'm guessing got put into your amp at some time. Do you have a ground or polarity switch in addition to the off/standby/on? If yes, we might can figure a way to convert your two switches to off/standby and standby/on. Depending on how bored or anal you are, we can get your amp looking as good as mine! John

Thanks to the magic of eBay, the same tweed Gibson GA19RVT recently came and went and then came and went again on eBay; a tale of flippity dippity the amp sold here for $1,050 and it sold again here for $1,200.. The selling power of a good rug should never be underestimated. Gibson made three tweed reverb combos; this one, the GA30RV, and the GA77RV. The GA19RVT with reverb and tremolo uses 3 6EU7s, one 7199, and twin 6V6s with a 5Y3 rectifier. All were fitted with Jensen C12R speakers mostly for clearance ... a belled P12R wouldn't fit in the stock cabinet. In any event, it's one way to make $150 ... and justify keeping a good rug around.


For $1,050 ... (feet cropped out) ... average condition:




Original knobs and stains ... mold in the patterned cotton backing of the vinyl tolex interacting with the water-based glue. Without the stains, it would have sold for several hundred dollars more:




Except for the cathode bypass caps and new power supply cap, all original electronics including the 'chocolate drop' caps that tend to mud up the tone:




... this time for $1,200 ... nothing like a nice rug ..




If you're bored, you can compare the stains on the back in the pic above to the stains on the back in the pic below ... okay ... a different angle but big stain wad in the middle and above and below the vent on the visual left ... it's the same amp.




... and, when he flipped it, he shot the chassis from a different angle:




Below is a comparison between the GA19s reverb circuit (upper) and the Princeton Reverb (aa1164) circuit, also a twin 6V6 design with tremolo; Leo's acknowledgment that money could be made in small reverb combo amps; both using two tube sections to ramp the to-be-verbed signal up and another section to send the 'verbed signal back to the line.




Pretty good YouTube audio sampler of the tweed GA19 here. Not sure but I believe the sample model still has its ceramic Jensen in it.


My GA19 from a couple of years ago; fresh grillcloth but with after-market plastic badge:




The chassis was in very good condition (including original Gibson-logo'ed tube set but cabinet nasty. Found another on eBay and then a back-panel but from the other shade of tolex used by Gibson:




The chocolate drops are really bad; not going to argue with Fenderistas about the tone of blue- or brown-molded signal caps or the virtues of authenticity; in the tweed Gibsons, it better be mint to justify hanging onto them; anyway ... from my Orange Drop period and fresh mylars for the trem circuit. Except for Bluesdan's GA18, the best trem on the planet. Beefy boy blue Sprague Atom power supply filter caps slung between two wiring strips. Also fitted with a Weber 12A125/Jensen P12Q by cutting the lower speaker baffle batten, replacing the baffle, and dropping the speaker to the point where the lip was just above the bottom of the cabinet to generate the physical clearance between the pre- and power-amp tubes.




The eBay amp sold (and resold) for about the going rate; the vgc models typically closer to $1,500 or so. They don't sound like Fenders but then again, they don't sound like Fenders ... smaller output transformers and different phase inverter design mostly but the better-grade Gibson amps are generally hanging on to their value.

Cap........that GA18 is still rockin' the blues and yes, it does have some of the finest tone on the planet! Rare is the amp that you can just plug straight in and get that sweet crisp crunchiness and tubey goodness. And I wish my mutual funds were doing as well as Gibson amp stock......seems like it was a good investment as well!
Forever in your debt for parting with her......
Dan