'57 X-175, Oh dear!

I just replied to GAD earlier, pontificating on how reluctant I'd be to buy a guitar I haven't played, and heaven knows I don't need another project. However, I just stumbled on a real knee-weakener with a big-ticket price but a lot of work needed. Some of you may have already seen this '57 X-175 at Elderly:
http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/40U-4462.htm

I wonder what it would cost to have a good luthier put this in shape... any thoughts? $5-600? More?

Replace all binding
Replace heel cap
Replace all neck inlays
Re-fret and set-up
Hope there's nothing else

The attraction is that it is a vintage classic with my dream neck width and scale length and the Franz single coils. Otherwise it would be just nutty to even consider.

Anybody here ever dealt with Elderly?

I think you would be happy with the repair folks at Elderly. I would imagine they would do this type of work, you should ask them for an estimate.

There are real advantages to buying guitars from folks like Elderley, all right. But you should be able to find an equivalent guitar in much better shape on eBay for that price or less, if you're willing to take the risk.

Hi AJ: if you're serious, you need to ask them about how well those pickups are working. Scratchy pots are one thing; re-winding / re-placing the pickups ... you know what I mean; it's a fine looker for sure! CJ

All good advice... thanks! I sent them a note inquiring about repair costs if they do it and questioned the pups output as well (good tip Captain). I had Lindy Fralin rewind an old DeArmond a few years ago and it added about $65 (at that time) to the price I paid for it on eBay. Lucky for me, the seller (honest but unaware) was willing to split the cost.

Proceeding slowly and cautiously,
- Joe

I was interested in this guitar as well. Here's the response I got from them about it...

Thanks for the inquiry! No missing frets, just appears that way because they are tarnished in places. We do not know when the tuners were done. Truss rod works, pickups seem strong. Pots are indeed scratchy. Total estimated work is $561.00 by our shop. I hope this helps. Take Care.
Patrick Zelenka

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I asked my local luthier about it and he quoted about the same price for the work. I'd love to pick it up and get it restored, but I don't really like the price. They would have to come off that price a good bit for me to buy it.

But if you get it, good luck! It will be a beautiful guitar once it's fixed up.

FWIW, Elderly is asking more for this '57 than I paid for my '54 X-175 (featured in another thread).

It would be nice to know exactly what they are including in that quote... all new frets and inlays too for example?

I would agree that they should come down on the price, it seems too high given what we've seen the past year. I also would question how they can say it is in "very good - excellent" condition if it needs over $500 worth of repair. Good luck with it - I hope they will make a deal with you if you ask them to move on the price - it looks like it could be a great guitar!

walrus

MrBoZiffer said:

I was interested in this guitar as well. Here's the response I got from them about it...

Thanks for the inquiry! No missing frets, just appears that way because they are tarnished in places. We do not know when the tuners were done. Truss rod works, pickups seem strong. Pots are indeed scratchy. Total estimated work is $561.00 by our shop. I hope this helps. Take Care.
Patrick Zelenka

Click to expand...

I asked my local luthier about it and he quoted about the same price for the work. I'd love to pick it up and get it restored, but I don't really like the price. They would have to come off that price a good bit for me to buy it.

But if you get it, good luck! It will be a beautiful guitar once it's fixed up.

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I asked them the same questions and got EXACTLY the same answer. I wrote back and said 'does that include replacing ALL the binding and inlays and got no response, so I guess I'm done. Considering the current market, that's just too much.

When I went over it with my luthier, we both agreed that $1000 would be the top number. I can't see them coming that far off the $1900 anytime soon, but you never know, they have had it for a while. It wouldn't hurt to make an offer, no matter how low. In my experiences, some of these dealers set the prices high, but will ususally take much less... especially if it's been in their inventory a long time. Then there's always the economy... they need cash like everyone else. Oh yeah, and they're in Michigan. I would think they'd want to sell this thing. Plus, they probably paid something like $500 for it.

I would like to make them an offer, but I've got my eye on a couple of other Guilds that need no work. :wink:

I've heard that if you don't also refinish at the same time, binding replacement is labor intensive, and the replaced binding will be easier to spot, won't be as nice as it would be with a refin, and it will usually affect the finish for an inch or so all around. I'm no expert on this stuff but I have a luthier I trust greatly who has done some amazing work who told me this and I've read similar things online. Also I've seen guitars on ebay with replaced binding where you could see that the finish was sanded along the binding and then re-dyed and oversprayed. Some of them have looked pretty crappy.

So, based on that I would not consider a guitar with serious binding problems unless I was looking for a project, and it also happened to have a finish that was so far gone (or previously refinned badly or something) and sufficiently cheap that it would make sense to buy it at the sale price and have all that work done and still total up around or under the value that a refinned, rebound guitar of that type would have. Also of course it would have to be a guitar that I would want to have in that sort of condition; if I'm looking for a specific model and it's really important to me, I'd probably not want one with those kinds of issues.

That kind of guitar would need to be kind of a bargain which I would like to have for utilitarian purposes, which is pretty much the story on my '66 SFIII Special as it has a headstock repair, neck refin, and top overspray. But it's also a nice playing guitar with cool old DeArmonds and a Bigsby that looks great, which I'm not afraid to gig with, is an interesting model variant from a builder that I am a big fan of, and only cost me about $1000 total (repairs included) with a nice original case.

teleharmonium said:

if you don't also refinish at the same time, binding replacement is labor intensive, and the replaced binding will be easier to spot, won't be as nice as it would be with a refin, and it will usually affect the finish for an inch or so all around.
. . . based on that I would not consider a guitar with serious binding problems unless I was looking for a project, and it also happened to have a finish that was so far gone (or previously refinned badly or something)

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I hope I won't be confirming this - the '53 X-350 I just got should arrive with the experts at archtop.com inSeattle tomorrow, and I'll hear their assessment and estimate. It needs major binding work, at least on the back.

Of course, a refin is out of the question. Ain't it pretty?

I'll keep y'all posted.

Old binding can be heated and stretched back to where it was, believe it or not. Also if it's in one piece it can be heated, removed and reglued and you leave the space under the tailpeice. OR some who's got it together can cut it in the middle of the shrunken part, reglue and stick a new piece in the middle, after they match the color. The thing to remember is that you don't want it to look new you want it to look like its been there for 50 yrs. I've had a ton of binding and inlay work done over the years, and it has not been terribly expensive.

john_kidder said:

I hope I won't be confirming this - the '53 X-350 I just got should arrive with the experts at archtop.com in Seattle tomorrow, and I'll hear their assessment and estimate. It needs major binding work, at least on the back. Of course, a refin is out of the question. Ain't it pretty? I'll keep y'all posted.

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It's beautiful John, and yes, let us know what you find out.