'67 on eBay

fronobulax

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I'm posting this in Bass "just because".

This is a listing for a '67 SF I on eBay. There are two points of interest to me.

First it has a "crack" in the back of the neck. According to the seller, the seller's luthier said "that the channel for the truss rods are too deep on these Guild basses, leaving not much wood and if someone over tightens the truss rod, the back of the neck is prone to split." This makes sense to me but it is a failure I have never heard of before. On the other hand I knew a lot of people who were afraid of truss rod adjustments because there was a potential for major damage. Is the luthier correct? Is this a legitimate concern or does worrying about a neck split move from rationality to paranoia?

Second, there is some discussion about the neck/fretboard that I believe was initiated by our own Mellogerman.

I have never built a bass or guitar or even paid much attention to one during construction. Imagine that a neck is built either by shaping a solid piece of wood or by putting two or three pieces together. If it was a single piece of wood the side by the stings could be finished and the frets put on. Otherwise there would be a layer of some other wood "laminated" to the string side and then the frets installed. This laminated layer would be called the fingerboard and could often be of a different wood than the neck.

The bass in question looks as if there is no fingerboard, to the extent that my definition and understanding above is correct. There is a lot of grain visible between the frets and I would guess that there was never a "laminated layer" or that it had been removed.

Mellowgerman and I both seem to agree that the "fingerboard" is unusual and could be the result of post-factory work. The seller's luthier says "The fretboard has been re-finished" and "The fretboard is original and has not been replaced" which seems to be a bit of a contradiction.

I would say that the factory fretboard has been removed and the neck refinished. To the extent that the new fretboard is the original neck I could get in a p*ssing contest about the meaning of specific words but note that there is clearly something original about the wood that is currently serving as the fretboard. I would also suggest that repairing a truss rod channel crack might involve removing a laminated fingerboard.

Any comments? Is my ignorance of neck construction leading me down the wrong path? Since the body does appear to have a wonderful factory natural finish, was a "natural" fretboard and finish a corresponding factory option?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks.
 

zulu

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I am far from an expert, but in pic 8, next to the nut, I believe you can see that the fingerboard is a separate piece of wood.

If a fretboard on a Starfire were removed, the neck would be 1/4 inch(or so) too low, and the nut would have to be cut deeper into the neck.

That is a nasty crack for a $1600 bass.
 

wright1

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I was just curious and had a look at the photos. My impression is that there is a fretboard there even if it looks a little thin. I say this because the neck looks like a three piece sandwich of mahogany with a maple centre. The fretboard looks like brazillian slabcut rosewood with a lot of figure. Now, maybe the trussrod has caused the crack but it is well away from the centre.It is a thin neck and maybe some movement in the fingerboard has caused the crack. The crack looks quite long,maybe too long for it to be caused by just the truss rod which would have to be pushing to the side to cause a crack that far away from the centre.The rest of the bass looks to be OK but I would have to be pretty sure that neck crack was stable before I paid any hard cash. I am pretty sure that there would be a few instances of this type of failure if the trussrod slot was too deep but then again with so much variation in production maybe this one is unusual but for a luthier to say it is common enough to blame the crack on it?
Frono, don't get paranoid!
 

danerectal

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nice tat, Zulu.

file.php


Another Guild tattoo!
 

gilded

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zulu said:
So, Is this bass worth $1600?

Gosh, I hope not!

I've never seen a board like that on a Guild, but it sure is pretty. My guess would be a replaced board, but that's not why I wouldn't pay $1600. No, it would be THE CRACK!

Ah, the serial number looks kind of faint, too. Maybe the whole thing is a re-fin, I dunno. The paint is coming off the back in a way that is very consistent with some of the Guild Starfire finish loss that I have seen before.
 

fronobulax

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zulu said:
I am far from an expert, but in pic 8, next to the nut, I believe you can see that the fingerboard is a separate piece of wood.

If a fretboard on a Starfire were removed, the neck would be 1/4 inch(or so) too low, and the nut would have to be cut deeper into the neck.

That is a nasty crack for a $1600 bass.

Thanks. I looked at my SF and then the eBay bass and I now see and agree that the fretboard is a separate piece of wood and is present. So the question of originality may come down to the fact that I have never seen a SF fretboard that was that light and exhibited that much grain. However, if it left the factory in a natural finish then I can imagine using a different fretboard treatment than what I'm used to seeing. I would guess that refinishing the fretboard, as the seller states, might also result in the lighter appearance and the more visible grain.

Nasty crack but I have given up trying to predict values. The PU is a couple hundred bucks parted out and if the neck crack makes it a player, rather than a collectible, it should still have the sound. I realized I couldn't predict anything when a SF II with humbuckers went for over $2500.

Thanks.
 

fronobulax

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Well it didn't get a bid at $1600. Since the seller says it's ready to gig and if it doesn't sell he'll be happy to keep it, maybe Grot (and others in NJ) should keep their eyes open.
 

The Guilds of Grot

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Looks to me like the fretboard was re-finished. With lacquer!

You know, Like a Ric fretboard. I've seen some wild wood grains on Guild fretboards. Once the oil is absorbed the grain kind of fades.
 

capnjuan

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fronobulax said:
First it has a "crack" in the back of the neck. According to the seller, the seller's luthier said "that the channel for the truss rods are too deep on these Guild basses, leaving not much wood and if someone over tightens the truss rod, the back of the neck is prone to split." This makes sense to me but it is a failure I have never heard of before. On the other hand I knew a lot of people who were afraid of truss rod adjustments because there was a potential for major damage. Is the luthier correct? Is this a legitimate concern or does worrying about a neck split move from rationality to paranoia?
Hi Frono; the trick to not cracking the neck and ruining the truss rod is determining that the nut turns independently of the rod before serious torque is applied. If the nut is seized to the rod, any apparent give isn't the nut turning on the rod, it's the nut turning the rod. Roughly; if you extend one forefinger and hold its tip with the thumb and forefinger of the other hand and try to rotate it, you'll see your index finger bend and flex, vaguely like a drain snake whipping around as the crank is turned; it's the flexing of the rod against the neck that causes the damage. Anyway, it's not uncommon particularly on 12-strings where there are twice as many opportunities to screw up. This crowd is concious of this type of damage to Guilds but, since we collectively don't watch other brands with trussed necks as closely, I don't know that what happens to Guilds doesn't happen just as, or more, frequently to other makes as well.

If you get the urge to fool with your neck, make alignment marks on the nut and rod; either a Sharpie or scratched with an awl, so you know where you started from and, if necessary, where 'home' is in case your anxieties get the best of you. With marks in place, some gentle pressure and check to see if the alignment marks have moved apart. If they have, you are on your way. If not, then it's either WD40 or comparable penetrating lubricant or take it some where. Inoperable truss rods can be replaced; it's harder to conceal the cracks that occur because somebody didn't realize the rod was inoperable. In one sense, I agree with the gent's remarks above; Guild channels are probably too deep to be considered Stupid-Proof. Best, J
 

wright1

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Whoa on the WD40!! These type of penetrating oils will soak into the wood. In fact any type of oil will. If you can put something around the nut to prevent it getting on the wood and use a cocktail stick to put the smallest amount on the nut/thread end so that it soaks into the metal threads only then fine but as soon as you get the nut off the rod clean any residue off. If you are not confident then take it to your favourite luthier. During a setup a good luthier will always remove the trussrod nut and lube it with something like vaseline or dry PTFE lube just to make sure the rod is working OK. I know my Martin truss rod is very stiff in operation but I know it is just that because I lubed it before I tried to adjust it. You can still snap any rod lubed or not but if it runs smooth there is less chance.
 
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