Jingle Jangle ... Rickenbacker 360-12 In The House

Showed up today: 2000 Rickenbacker 360-12 in sweet 'Mapleglow'








... you know things are meant to be when the case candy includes ....



Very high-grade workmanship, lighter than expected, coating (thin epoxy?) on the fingerboard to prevent gouging and ease cleaning, Ric-O-Sound thingie - an extra jack tapping the output allows faux stereo / dual-mono signal to two channels of same amp or to two amps, OHSC, bought off Baltimore Craigslist with my oldest bro doing the pick up / pay off honors.

No issues w/ UPS overnight shipping (the secret is don't let them keep it very long), tested, pickups fine, and makes 'that sound'. Gonna need a cleaner amp than my dirty old Gibsons. Considered a SF12 but if I'd bought one, this is the sound I would have been looking for so buying SF12 w/o listening to it mighta meant owning a neat guitar .... and then buying a Rickenbacker. Tuning with the weird peghead is gonna take some effort; will probably fly Guildmark in twice a month ... he's the tuningest 12er I know!

References:
Rickenbacker 360-12 Specifications
2001 eBay model with much better pics
McGuinn model on eBay … one day ... sigh

CJ

Edit: originally in Mug Shots, moved here. J

SWEET!!!

That's one good-looking guitar cj! Glad to here it made it there in one piece.

From what I recall from working at UPS, overnight packages are last on, first off and don't get the same "throw it down the chute" treatment as everything else.

Enjoy your "blizzard of nails", but don't play it through a Vox. You'll want one of them too. :lol:

Thanks Steve; probably will have to settle for rehabbing the Uni Vox (not to be mistaken for the real thing) lurking there behind in the full body shot. Am also looking for some wire-rim glasses and beatle boots ... :wink:

Nice one CJ,

Had one of these a long time ago. It sounded great but I could not handle the narrow string spacing.
My regular 6-string guitars have 1-7/8" wide fingerboards at the nut, so 12 strings on an even narrower neck does not feel comfortable to me.
I finally settled for a '60s Epiphone Riviera XII, which gave me a little more neck to work with.
The Epi doesn't sound exactly the same as a Rick but it does get pretty close.
I do have a couple of nice Starfire XIIs and even though they have a good sound of their own (and they have the advantage of a pretty wide neck) they don't get anywhere near that 'jingle-jangle' Rick sound.

Hope you will enjoy it!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Thanks Hans; I know it's going to be a stuggle with the fingerboard ... and my fingers tend towards the pudgy side ... but as you say there is nothing else that makes the sound and thank you for the tip on the comparable Epiphone .. there might be one of those in my future if I can find one. The guitar will also push me to get going on a pretty nice Univox U305R I have; a 7591 reverb amp that ought to have a clean signal ... and ... I needed a reason to buy the beatle boots! John

Very interesting John, and no jinx. :wink:

capnjuan said:

Tuning with the weird peghead is gonna take some effort; will probably fly Guildmark in twice a month ... he's the tuningest 12er I know!

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congrats john,
....still waiting for the clip :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

He shoots...........He SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is a beauty Cap. I always wanted me one them there Jingly Jangly Ricks! Enjoy.

Hey, CJ, just checking.... Is the Rick strung with the bass string of each pair the on top? I'd heard they did it that way, but I wasn't sure.

Chazmo said:

... Is the Rick strung with the bass string of each pair the on top? I'd heard they did it that way, but I wasn't sure.

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Yes C-Man, bass on top, octave next ... the pattern continues with all the wound strings. I once had the wacky idea of reversing the strings on the F212 ... you know ... just to see. It was a great idea until I realized that for it to work at all, I'd have to have a new nut a la Rickenbacker ... not every idea is a good one :lol: J

krysh said:

congrats john, ....still waiting for the clip :

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Hi Michael and thank you. I can report that I am one step closer. Recently met a guy who is way into home recording; has all the gear and knowledge. I have been after him to bring his stuff and record himself playing through my gear ... I really would like you all to hear what these old Gibson's sound like. It would be a first step and maybe I could get myself pumped up on a little Stoly ... (burp) :wink:

BluesDan said:

That is a beauty Cap. I always wanted me one them there Jingly Jangly Ricks! Enjoy.

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Thanks Dan ... we'll work out a deal. Once a year, I'll ship it to you and you ship that X-700 down here; two weeks later, we ship back. I wouldn't mind taking a shot with one of those big, beautiful jazz/blues machines! CJ

That's very cool!

I've recently seen a number of 6 string 360's around New England and become interested in them. A bit rich for my idle interest but if they take the nose dive in prices that I've seen Fenders take, it could be within reach. I don't expect that, though. 6 Ricks to about 60 American strats and teles. I suspect it's probably one Rick posted with different wording all over the place.

jack

CJ,

Congrats!!

I had an '05 blonde 370/12 (3rd pickups, like the McGuinn) for about a year. I could never get used to the 3rd pickup and was ALWAYS hitting the middle pickup with my pick. Believe me, don't worry about having the 360 '2 pickup version' instead of the McGuinn. Get a Janglebox compressor (actually lots of compressors sound fine), some flat-wound strings and sail on, my Floridian brother.

My guitar? I swapped it for a '94 or '97 (I can never remember) 360/12 old style (which I still have) a couple of years ago. I like the body foot-print on the Old Style better, but that's an entirely personal matter.

Pickups: There are two types of Rick pickups, the modern Hi-gain type and the traditional Toaster type. The Hi-gain has more gain and crunch, the Toaster has more Jangle.

Toasters: There are actually 3 distinct groups of Toaster pickups, the original '50's/'60's pickups, the '87 to '99 1st generation reissue Toasters (that date line is about right, maybe off a little) and the post '99 2nd generation reissue Toaster pickups. The 1st generation reissues are a bit hotter than the originals and people found that they didn't have as much Jangle as the actual Vintage pickups. The 2nd generation reissues corrected that issue (among others) and sound a lot closer to the 'real deal'.

Your guitar is a little different, because it has the Hi-gain pickups, which is why your amps are overloading. Those pickups are way cool, but have a lot more gain (crunch?) than traditional Ricky 'Toaster pickups'. It's a very good sound, but not exactly the 'Jangle' sound. Still, I bet most of the '70's and '80's Tom Petty Rick was done with the type of pickups you currently have on your guitar and how can you beat that??

Still, if you find you really want more Jangle, you can buy a set of the new Toasters from a dealer, or sometimes the factory store, when they aren't back-ordered. The good news is they will drop right in. They should cost about $200-300 bucks for a pair.

Wait, I have a better idea!! I actually put a pair of 2nd generation reissue Toasters on my guitar and have a set of 1st gen. Toasters lying around. Borrow my 'loose ones' from me and see if the sound appeals to you at all. They won't sound exactly like the 'newest/old' Toasters, but you will get a lesson in Jangle 101, pretty quick. You can't beat the price either!

String choices: Ah, folks talk about Pyramid strings and Beatle usage, but the modern Pyramid strings have very high tension and are not at all the way the original Rick flat-wound strings were in the '60's. I'd use Thomastiks if you want to get close to the original feel and tension of the flat-wound strings they were using when the world was young. Funny thing, a year ago when I was checking on all of this stuff, you still had to buy Thomastik strings as separates, because unbelievably, they didn't have a 12 string set for sale!

If you don't care, do what I do and buy D'Addario light guage round wounds. The other thing you might think of doing is just continue to use the type of strings that the guitar has on it now, whatever they are, because double truss-rod Ricks are a huge pain to adjust. Only adjust them a little at a time, honest, then wait a couple of days and see if they move some more!

Bridge choices: The 12 saddle bridges will play in tune a lot better than the 6 string saddles that Rick uses some of the time on their 12s, honest.

On McGuinn: If you like the Byrds (of course you do!) go buy a McGuinn instruction video/DVD for $20 bucks off of fleaBay and learn all those banjo rolls thingies he does, so you can teach me the right way to play the intro to Mr. Tambourine Man! Also, watch Youtube and see what chord forms Roger/Jim is really using on those old songs. It might surprise you a bit, especially the way he's moving his fingers on the accent notes between chords. Might make it a bit easier to play some of that stuff up to speed.

Welcome to the Club, bub!! I'm very happy for you!

gilded

Well Done on the Rick!! That is a very sweet ride.........

Chazmo wrote:
... Is the Rick strung with the bass string of each pair the on top? I'd heard they did it that way, but I wasn't sure.
Yes C-Man, bass on top, octave next ... the pattern continues with all the wound strings. I once had the wacky idea of reversing the strings on the F212 ... you know ... just to see. It was a great idea until I realized that for it to work at all, I'd have to have a new nut a la Rickenbacker ... not every idea is a good one :lol: J

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I reversed the strings on an acoustic Ibanez dread, ala Rickenbacker. I like the results and still have it set up that way.

~nw

Nigel Wickwire said:

I reversed the strings on an acoustic Ibanez dread, ala Rickenbacker. I like the results and still have it set up that way.

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Hi Nigel: doesn't the thicker bass string ride up and out of a nut slot cut for an octave string ... and how much volume can you get from the octave string if it's sitting 'down' in the wound string slot? I'm glad it works but not sure I understand how :? CJ

I would also think that the wound strings would bind up in the nut when you try to tune 'em...

Best wishes, CJ. Did I mention how gorgeous that thing is...? Those Rickenbacker 12s are truly unique. I love the headstock (though I bet it's a bit of a bear to string). Rock on.

Hello CJ

Hi Nigel: doesn't the thicker bass string ride up and out of a nut slot cut for an octave string ... and how much volume can you get from the octave string if it's sitting 'down' in the wound string slot? I'm glad it works but not sure I understand how :? CJ

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I had a local luthier work on the nut so that the wound strings sit down properly. I might be sacrificing a small bit of volume on the octave string, although I can't say that for sure. In my experience, the key to making it work is adjusting how I fret the strings with finger pressure. I'm not sure how to explain that exactly, but having a pair of dissimilar strings under your finger tip, as on the bottom three or four strings on a 12er, a player applies pressure at a very slight angle to have both strings contact the fret evenly. This is pretty much an unconscious adjustment. By switching the strings, I make an effort to apply that slightly uneven pressure in the other direction. This eliminates any rattle or buzz.

The other change in technique is to emphasize the upstroke when strumming chords. This helps to overcome the perceived or real loss of volume on the octave string. In a typically strung 12er, you hit the octave string on the downstroke, so you always get the volume without thinking about it. By switching the strings, I can still get most of the volume by putting a little extra emphasis on the upstroke.

The secret really seems to be adjusting one's technique.

~nw

Nigel Wickwire said:

...The secret really seems to be adjusting one's technique...

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Thanks Nigel, I felt sure some nut changes would be necessary. I'd like to think my LH technique held out the chance of such refined adjustments ... The string switch occured to me while watching some Leo K vids; ignoring for the time being the crappy recording quality and whatever tone is lost in the ether and cheesey pc sound cards and speakers, I got the impression that his thumbed bass notes were 'bassier' that is, much less octave string contribution than what I get.

It also doesn't help that I use a thumbpick - Yes, Maestro David has gotten after me on account of this practice - but it's really all I know. Anyhow, that's how I got interested in a way to diminish the octave string's volume in the first place ... looking for the 'softer' thing I think I hear listening to Kottke vids.

I saw Jim (you can call me Roger) McGuinn last year here in Jupiter FL; he was playing with a flat pick and metal finger picks on the middle and ring fingers. After my beatle boots get here, I'll probably give it a try ... Regards, John

I got the impression that his thumbed bass notes were 'bassier' that is, much less octave string contribution than what I get.

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Using a thumbpick with the strings reversed will indeed provide a 'bassier' sound on the bottom three or four string pairs. As will an arpeggio style finger playing or playing alternating bass notes with chords.

I got the inclination to switch the strings while trying to learn the intro to BonJovi's 'Wanted Dead or Alive'. Basically, it is a run from up on the 14th fret down to the open position on the first four strings with the D strings open though out the run. It sounds great on a six-string, but sounded 'tinny' on the twelve string because of the octave string being struck first in the D string pair. Anyway, long story short I switched the strings and I am able to get the sound I was looking for.

Enjoy the Ric........

Sincerely,
~nw