First guilds from the new factory...

cjd-player

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West R Lee said:
Wouldn't have made more sense to have just stayed at Westerly? :? West
Absolutely yes.
And that's why it is obvious that you never studied business or economics. :mrgreen:
Takes a Harvard 3-piece-suit lad to figure out that really tough business stuff that makes us mere mortals go "Huh???" :D
 

GuildFS4612CE

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There is a 'non-confirmed', i.e., 'rumor' making the rounds, that Fender found out that they didn't actually OWN the Tacoma factory :shock:...perhaps Sherlock Holmes can track down the truth... :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

6L6

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When have they ever proven to know anything about making quality acoustics?

I'd rate the Tacoma built Guilds I own with anything the company has ever made.

Give 'em a chance, I say!

6

'74 D-40
'06 D-40BJ
'06 D-55
'06 F-412
 

Scratch

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6L6 said:
When have they ever proven to know anything about making quality acoustics?

I'd rate the Tacoma built Guilds I own with anything the company has ever made.

Give 'em a chance, I say!

6

'74 D-40
'06 D-40BJ
'06 D-55
'06 F-412

+1
 
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I can't resist weighing in here, either, lads. I would LOVE to give FMIC the benefit of the doubt, but I've worked in the music industry in so many different capacities and seen them 12 different ways from up, that I can only say I'll have to remain a skeptic. If they would give us a great big positive sign - like giving Donnie Wade the boot - I might be more hopeful. BUT...I really, really would love to believe Guild will/can come back strong. (I'm also the lad that would really, really like to believe in the little people.) Sadly, I looked at a lot of Coronas and GADs (GAD!) and even a number of Tacomas. The Tacomas showed promise and some were really nice - some were - but the others were just not Guilds to me. I wanted to believe, but the instruments couldn't convince me and the continual verbal excuses and lies from FMIC just haven't been reassuring at all. FMIC is like Lucy Van Pelt holding the footbal for Charlie Brown. Every season she promises not to move it, but we all know she will - and there's sadly always a Charlie Brown to fall for it. I'll just stick to what I've said before - All the Guilds I'll ever own have already been made. Love & kisses all - dbs

PS - West, Mr. P, John Kidder, Guildmark and others - my "FrankenGuild" is now complete and as soon as I can get my daughter to be still, I'll have her shoot some photos and post them. It's a beauty! Hold fast!
 

West R Lee

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:D I'll look forward to seeing the "Frankenguild" with eager anticipation Dud. Great hearing from you.

West
 

fungusyoung

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6L6 said:
When have they ever proven to know anything about making quality acoustics?

I'd rate the Tacoma built Guilds I own with anything the company has ever made.

Give 'em a chance, I say!

6



My criticisms take absolutely nothing away from the Tacoma era Guilds. I think they are fantastically built guitars. But, that certainly doesn't mean FMIC knows anything about quality acoustic building. Those folks at Tacoma had been building acoustics for years before FMIC slapped the Guild name onto them one day. And, then those some folks got tossed aside in a flash. Something tells me they don't have the highest regard for FMIC either.
 

Scratch

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I have NO love for FMIC and their management practices, and I agree with the skepticism/cynicism to a degree. I tend; however, to be an optimist; once a pessimist which led to depression. Kicked that habit...

Its just a personal thing to me to give benefit of the doubt; then prove me wrong. Til then, I'm very happy with my Westerly & Tacoma stash. Who knows; I might even one day buy a CT built, but only after they prove worthy in the marketplace.
 

kentukblue

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I just doubt that even if they have the right equipment and people, they will be able to pick up where tacoma left off. Even tacoma, who was used to building acoustics, had a transition period of so-so work. There is a early # tacoma D55 thats been setting in the local shop for a long time. The back binding isnt exactly center and its not the best sounding, but from all reports the latest models have been really nice. That is understandable. I just hope the Conn. factory gets it right and doesnt kick out a full years worth of 2nd's like Corona did.
 

chazmo

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kentukblue said:
I just doubt that even if they have the right equipment and people, they will be able to pick up where tacoma left off. Even tacoma, who was used to building acoustics, had a transition period of so-so work. There is a early # tacoma D55 thats been setting in the local shop for a long time. The back binding isnt exactly center and its not the best sounding, but from all reports the latest models have been really nice. That is understandable. I just hope the Conn. factory gets it right and doesnt kick out a full years worth of 2nd's like Corona did.

I just want to note that Tacoma had its share of factory seconds ("USED") items too. It just depends on how picky QA is at the time.

Seconds were not limited to Corona flaws. The transition from California to Washington was not without hiccups. It's also worth noting that there were Westerly seconds, guys... I think the difference here is that the seconds were quite refined late in Westerly's production. The seconds I saw from Tacoma were almost all recognizable as damaged in some way. There's a clearing house called MIRC (http://mircweb.com/quality.php) that got, fixed, and distributed quite a few of these.

Best wishes.
 

Guildmark

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Chazmo said:
kentukblue said:
I just doubt that even if they have the right equipment and people, they will be able to pick up where tacoma left off. Even tacoma, who was used to building acoustics, had a transition period of so-so work. There is a early # tacoma D55 thats been setting in the local shop for a long time. The back binding isnt exactly center and its not the best sounding, but from all reports the latest models have been really nice. That is understandable. I just hope the Conn. factory gets it right and doesnt kick out a full years worth of 2nd's like Corona did.

I just want to note that Tacoma had its share of factory seconds ("USED") items too. It just depends on how picky QA is at the time.

Seconds were not limited to Corona flaws. The transition from California to Washington was not without hiccups. It's also worth noting that there were Westerly seconds, guys... I think the difference here is that the seconds were quite refined late in Westerly's production. The seconds I saw from Tacoma were almost all recognizable as damaged in some way. There's a clearing house called MIRC (http://mircweb.com/quality.php) that got, fixed, and distributed quite a few of these.

Best wishes.
Corona had its successes, though the conventional wisdom is that the ratio was not optimal. Tacoma is putting out a very high quality product, with what appears to have been a shorter ramp up. We have to expect that Connecticut is going to have a quality curve, too. The percentage of good guitars they produce and how long it will take to get to an acceptable level of them is the risk FMIC is taking. But I have yet to understand why they want to take it. The reasons for the shift to the east coast just don't make sense to me. Martin has only ever moved across town - not the country. And they enhance and build on to their facilities. That gives them a reputation of stability and consistency. Taylor has only moved when they outgrew their facilities. They seem to be doing pretty well. Even Gibson has moved less frequently, I believe. The only way this move is a good thing is if we are to believe the formula for Guild guitars is repeatable anywhere, regardless of the climate, equipment, craftsmen, or management. That might be true, like for solid body electrics, but why does Fender feel it necessatry to keep trying to prove it for premium acoustics?
 

dreadnut

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Interestingly, Gibson sank so low that the whole company sold for only $5 million several years ago, I read about it in Inc. Magazine. Quite a bargain price for that name and reputation, I thought. They moved twice as far as I know - first to Nashville, then out to Montana.

Not that I'm real impressed with what they've done with the products...especially the last few years I've seen some real ugly quality issues on their new guitars, both acoustic and electric.

One bright spot is the Heritage guitars, produced in Kalamazoo by some of the old Gibson craftsmen. Wish someone in Westerly would do that with Guild Electrics...
 
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So...
Anybody actually seen or heard anything about new product leaving the plant?

As a Tacoma fan, I'm watching the on-line ads at Musician's Friend for the return of the "Wing" series Tacomas, probably from China now...

The Tacoma made Guilds that I have come across here in Ohio have been awesome examples of acoustic builds. There was a sweet D-40 that almost followed me home.

I hope after the dust settles, and the shiny new Guilds hit the market, they are as good sounding and playing as the ones made in Washington, and prices aren't too out of reach.

Will try to have a positive, open mind about the move. I just still have a nasty chunk of FMIC stuck in the back of my throat after the Tacoma plant shut-down...
 

chazmo

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Guildmark said:
[ ... ]We have to expect that Connecticut is going to have a quality curve, too. The percentage of good guitars they produce and how long it will take to get to an acceptable level of them is the risk FMIC is taking. But I have yet to understand why they want to take it. The reasons for the shift to the east coast just don't make sense to me. [ ... ] The only way this move is a good thing is if we are to believe the formula for Guild guitars is repeatable anywhere, regardless of the climate, equipment, craftsmen, or management. That might be true, like for solid body electrics, but why does Fender feel it necessatry to keep trying to prove it for premium acoustics?

Mark, you've said a mouthful there. Here's my purely objective opinion: ;)

First of all, I think the Japanese have proven (to me, at least) that they can move manufacturing from one place to another and maintain production of a quality product. A couple of years ago, for example, they moved the production of my favorite sports car (Honda S2000) from a "boutique" small-production factory where the car was developed (along with their famous NSX and the funky Insight) to a wider, mass-production facility completely across the country. The S2000s from Suzuka are just as good as the originals from Tochigi (we were all worried about that at the time of the move). I am not saying that Guild's premium guitars are Hondas, but I do think this can be done.

Secondly, you've asked the magical question of "why?" We've had a few possible answers here already, but do you think there's some other motive at work here for the CT move other than just pure consolidation? That's really the question. If you think there's something nefarious going on in FMIC executives to maybe kill the Guild brand high-end gits to make more room for, say, Taylors... well, I'll admit that's possible. But, Occam's Razor says this is just profit motive at work, Mark. Ultimately, FMIC believes they'll be able to build our favorite Guilds cheaper in CT.

I agree with everyone that that three moves in, what, 7 years is somewhat ludicrous. I'm not happy about it, but I'm not writing US Guilds off either.
 

6L6

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Ultimately, FMIC believes they'll be able to build our favorite Guilds cheaper in CT.

Agreed.

And, I wouldn't sell those "salad bowl" guitar makers short either. I've owned a couple of Ovation Custom Legends that were killer guitars. I mean, I KNOW it's a little different to build backs and sides from wood vs lexican (or whatever it is), but I'm thinking the Ovation folks know how to build a good product. AND, I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of the old Westerly crowd ends up working for Guild again.

I just can't believe Fender is making this move so they can build an inferior product.

6
 

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I just picked up a used Corona Guild Flat back D25...the build on it is as good as anything I have seen, including Gibsons, Taylors, and even Martin. Its not a D55, but neither was the price. For the money, it was better than anything I have seen out there.....I actually thought about pulling the trigger on a 25th anniversary Seagull....but after getting the Guild, I'm glad I didn't. Not that the Seagull isn't an ok guitar, but its just not the build quality of the D25 I got.

That being said, Fender paid whatever they paid for the Guild name to build Guilds, not Fenders. I believe they would be crazy to throw away that investment by making a shotty instrument. If business, not ethics drive the industry, then it will be a business decision to keep the Guild a better instrument than what Fender has to offer....otherwise no one will buy into it. Trying a failing isn't unusual in any business and I think the world market has proved that to many manufacturers. The positive spin I see is that Fender has continued to try to keep the Guild name alive and has made a pretty good effort, regardless of the moves....Here's my point......Who here wouldn't want to own a D40 made in Tacoma?

I hope the move to Conneticut proves to be a good one for Guild, if not, I wouldn't be surprised if they moved again....I just hope they keep it in the NorthAmerican continent....Canada is welcome too!
 

GuildFS4612CE

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Let's try this again:

Guess you didn't notice it on the previous page.

I made it larger there.

Guess you still didn't notice it. :roll:


GuildFS4612CE said:
There is a 'non-confirmed', i.e., 'rumor' making the rounds, that Fender found out that they didn't actually OWN the Tacoma factory :shock:...perhaps Sherlock Holmes can track down the truth... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Peace :D
 

Guildmark

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Chazmo said:
... do you think there's some other motive at work here for the CT move other than just pure consolidation? That's really the question. If you think there's something nefarious going on in FMIC executives to maybe kill the Guild brand high-end gits to make more room for, say, Taylors... well, I'll admit that's possible. But, Occam's Razor says this is just profit motive at work, Mark. Ultimately, FMIC believes they'll be able to build our favorite Guilds cheaper in CT.

I agree with everyone that three moves in, what, 7 years is somewhat ludicrous. I'm not happy about it, but I'm not writing US Guilds off either.
Nothing nefarious, Chazmo. No conspriracy theories here (though I am convinced Russians messing with the jetstream is the cause of global warming!) I completely agree it's for profit, and I have nothing against that. Live long and prosper. I'm just wondering if they are considering the risk of lagging sales (profit) until the guitar-buying public is convinced the Connecticut products are as good as they expect them to be. If I grok Jane's idea, Fender doesn't want to make guitars in a factory they don't control, and maybe that is an influence for the move. The landlord might raise the rent and cut into the profit. These are all just ideas pickling in my brain. They're fun to think about. Kinda like, "Will Brett Favre actually change his mind and return next season after all?" Who knows?!
 
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