Silly question... Why 'Franz' pickups

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mrfjones

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could a few guys here maybe measure the dc resistance. I did find a winder that rewound a dead franz pickup a while back. I think he would be willing to recreate that pickup if we can get some measurements. his website stated that it was very strong and bright though I think the strong part may have been the way he wound it.

I would love to have a set to install in a guitar but i see them so rarely and they are almost never for sale.

I would be more than willing to compile the list and find a good average dc resistance that could traslate into the number of turns. I think the wire was quite thin, but I can find that out for sure.

It seems from the replies so far that the franz pickups are nothing more than an underwound p-90 so they should be easily recreatable.
 
Walter Broes

Walter Broes

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I have two pairs that are 6K, both pickups, and then I have two pairs that are 5K. And I don't think they were thàt sloppy making them, as in the pairs I have, pickups measure identical values, not just close.
 
Walter Broes

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I honestly wouldn't know Darryl - they're on different guitars, and these things are SO sensitive to height towards the strings that I'd almost have to conduct a semi-scientific experiment where I mount them on the same guitar at exactly the same height, etc...

I have a 5K pair on my '59/60 X175, but that guitar is so different from both '62's that it wouldn't be a fair comparison at all.
 
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mrfjones

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that is a great start, thank you so much. :D

right now we have 5 and 6 k ohms with the neck and the bridge perfectly equal. Anyone else care to measure or have something to add about the signal path? any strange values for pots or anything like that?
 
Walter Broes

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Dang - mfjones - I messed up and deleted your last post - I have "moderator" capabilites on this forum and I must have hit the wrong button!

I'm very, very sorry, didn't mean to do that, wanted to quote your last message and reply!

Walter
 
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Hey Walter - greetings from Toronto- I recently purchased dinobyte's 1961 x175 and I absolutely love it and it has made me want to purchase another x175. Long story short, after selling my gretsch 6120 (1960 reissue)I now have the funds to purchase a 1958 x175. I was wondering if you or anyone else could shed some light on the structural and sonic differences between the '58 and early 60's x175's as well as the sonic differences between franz pickups and dearmonds. Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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Hey Walter the forum had pics of my x175 but the got erased when the for sale site went down- I have to learn how to post pictures - and will do so next week when I return from my gig in the states. My x175 is the one that had dearmond pickups and a bigsby.
 
dklsplace

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mrfjones said:
could a few guys here maybe measure the dc resistance. I did find a winder that rewound a dead franz pickup a while back. I think he would be willing to recreate that pickup if we can get some measurements. his website stated that it was very strong and bright though I think the strong part may have been the way he wound it.

I would love to have a set to install in a guitar but i see them so rarely and they are almost never for sale.

I would be more than willing to compile the list and find a good average dc resistance that could traslate into the number of turns. I think the wire was quite thin, but I can find that out for sure.

It seems from the replies so far that the franz pickups are nothing more than an underwound p-90 so they should be easily recreatable.
Click to expand...

Here's a reference post I began awhile back. More info through the various links within.

Franz Pickup reference post
 
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mrfjones

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Walter Broes said:
Dang - mfjones - I messed up and deleted your last post - I have "moderator" capabilites on this forum and I must have hit the wrong button!

I'm very, very sorry, didn't mean to do that, wanted to quote your last message and reply!

Walter
Click to expand...


don't worry about it, someone has quoted it later on. dklspace I think.

thanks for the link. i will read over it.
 
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mrfjones

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jp said:
Posted specs on the Franz reference thread.
Click to expand...


thank you very much jp!


so if we can, with all the varying info, get some pickups wound to the specs of these franz pickups who would want some?

Addition: can anyone tell what type of wire these are wound with? formvar or enamel? that would really have a big effect on the sound.
 
Walter Broes

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mrfjones said:
so if we can, with all the varying info, get some pickups wound to the specs of these franz pickups who would want some?
Click to expand...
I'd have to be honest, and answer that would depend on a couple of things - and price is one of them.

Thing is, I have three guitars with Franzes on them already, and even though I play all three, that's more than I strictly need already, ànd I have a spare pair of pickups I got of Ebay.

Also, my good friend and guitar tech has gotten into winding pickups a couple of years ago, and recently started his own company. I like what he's doing a lot, in fact, his "brand" ("Steffsen pickups) now has the "WB Seatsniffers special" telecaster pickup set in the assortment. ("the Seatsniffers" is the name of my band)
They're wound with larger wire than standard (I don't know the tech specs, just the layman/dumbass terms!), and I like them a lot.

He's wound me a P90 pickup with the same wire recently, and I've been trying that on my "beater" DeArmond X135. I like it, but it's still a little loud and woofy for my taste, so when he gets back from his hard earned holiday he's going to do another one - and I have the idea that if he underwinds the one I have right now, we might get closer to Franz territory. I'll keep you posted.

But then again, if you feel confident about having the specs you need, and you think it's worth a try and it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg, the geek in me would be interested I guess...... :oops:
 
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mrfjones

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Walter Broes said:
mrfjones said:
so if we can, with all the varying info, get some pickups wound to the specs of these franz pickups who would want some?
Click to expand...
I'd have to be honest, and answer that would depend on a couple of things - and price is one of them.

Thing is, I have three guitars with Franzes on them already, and even though I play all three, that's more than I strictly need already, ànd I have a spare pair of pickups I got of Ebay.

Also, my good friend and guitar tech has gotten into winding pickups a couple of years ago, and recently started his own company. I like what he's doing a lot, in fact, his "brand" ("Steffsen pickups) now has the "WB Seatsniffers special" telecaster pickup set in the assortment. ("the Seatsniffers" is the name of my band)
They're wound with larger wire than standard (I don't know the tech specs, just the layman/dumbass terms!), and I like them a lot.

He's wound me a P90 pickup with the same wire recently, and I've been trying that on my "beater" DeArmond X135. I like it, but it's still a little loud and woofy for my taste, so when he gets back from his hard earned holiday he's going to do another one - and I have the idea that if he underwinds the one I have right now, we might get closer to Franz territory. I'll keep you posted.

But then again, if you feel confident about having the specs you need, and you think it's worth a try and it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg, the geek in me would be interested I guess...... :oops:
Click to expand...

I'll tell you what, if he can get close to that sound I would buy a set. I don't have a guitar to put them in right now but I think I will have one soon enough.

I am thinking about selling my biggest amp (cause I am going to be a daddy soon and I will never get to crank it up). If I do sell it I will be looking for an old guild and maybe a nice little project like a dearmond to mod.
 
Walter Broes

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Excellent! Like I said, I'll keep you posted, but it might take a while, both of us are pretty busy and pretty chaotic.

Congratulations and best of luck with the daddy business!!! :D
 
Default

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The great thing about kids is

"Honey, look at the guitar I bought Junior!"

"Junior is FOUR MONTHS OLD!!!!"

"That's ok, I'll hold on to it until he's old enough to play it!" <low evil chuckle>

"Maybe you can sleep on the couch until he's old enough too!"



Ok, so maybe it's not such a good idea. :?
 
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I acquired some old magnet wire from a co-worker named Paul Schultz. While going thru the wire, I found 3 old pickups. On the bottom plate, it said Fransch Electric Company, Woodside N.Y.C. A Google search didn't have alot to say about Fransch pickups, but I did find that they were used on 50's and early 60's Guild guitars and were also known as Franz pickups. I also found that this pickup was patented by Charles Schultz (pat # 2911871, filed Sep. 14, 1954, patented Nov.10,1959). One of the boxes of wire was addressed to: Frank Schultz, RD 1 Box 70, NJ Route 79, Marlboro NJ. so, I postulated that Fransch may be a pseudonym for perhaps FRANk SCHultz. I asked Paul Schultz what his dad's name was. He said "Frank". Aha, I thought I had it figured out, but when we talked about it, I found that his father was a research chemist, but his grandfather was also named Frank Schultz, was an electronics engineer, and owned a transformer/coil/etc making company in the 50's and early 60's. When I asked about Charles Schultz, he said he had an uncle Charley. So, my theory is that the Fransch Electric Company was owned by Frank Schultz, and this wire was used by Fransch to build transformers, solenoids, coils and maybe guitar pickups.

What do you guys think?

Ed Sharpe
 
jp

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Dokker said:
I acquired some old magnet wire from a co-worker named Paul Schultz. While going thru the wire, I found 3 old pickups. On the bottom plate, it said Fransch Electric Company, Woodside N.Y.C. A Google search didn't have alot to say about Fransch pickups, but I did find that they were used on 50's and early 60's Guild guitars and were also known as Franz pickups. I also found that this pickup was patented by Charles Schultz (pat # 2911871, filed Sep. 14, 1954, patented Nov.10,1959). One of the boxes of wire was addressed to: Frank Schultz, RD 1 Box 70, NJ Route 79, Marlboro NJ. so, I postulated that Fransch may be a pseudonym for perhaps FRANk SCHultz. I asked Paul Schultz what his dad's name was. He said "Frank". Aha, I thought I had it figured out, but when we talked about it, I found that his father was a research chemist, but his grandfather was also named Frank Schultz, was an electronics engineer, and owned a transformer/coil/etc making company in the 50's and early 60's. When I asked about Charles Schultz, he said he had an uncle Charley. So, my theory is that the Fransch Electric Company was owned by Frank Schultz, and this wire was used by Fransch to build transformers, solenoids, coils and maybe guitar pickups.

What do you guys think?

Ed Sharpe
Click to expand...
Nice detective work, Ed!

Quite worthy for your first posting. Welcome to the LTG. :D

That's some pretty delectable information for us Guild Geekazoids here. I wonder if any of your information cross-references with any info that Hans Moust has, our premier Guild historian? I'm sure he'll have some input.

BTW whatcha gonna do with all that old wire and those (3) old pickups? If the answer is "not a whole lot," send it all to me in Oregon. I'll make the trek up to Seattle, WA cross a few ferries out to Vashon Island, and hand it all over to one Mr. Jason Lollar, so that he can wind up a buncha Fransch pickups. :mrgreen:
 
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