Tonequest article

jp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
4,849
Reaction score
1,762
Location
Pacific Northwest US
Guild Total
4
Check out this Tonequest article (scroll down) which reviews the new Victoria Electro King (no affiliation) amp based on the old Gibson GA-40. It talks about the old 50s and 60s Gibbys, and is pretty interesting reading for all you solder-jockeys.
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
Hi JP: thanks for the link; below, the 'misplaced' tone control in the Phase Inverter section of the Gibson GA40 Les Paul - not where it would normally be found. Probably there because they are not using the 12AX7 with its convenient 'halves' but the pentode 5879 and if tied to, or from, the volume control, you might need another gain stage before the Inverter ??

ga40tone.jpg


Couldn't agree more with Victoria re/ 'Party' or 'Cigar' caps used extensively in Gibsons; crappy quality, shortened functional life, and, today, it means clearing out a space to put in modern quality filter caps as in pic of a Gibson GA19 RVT below; the lumpy blue things right center in space formerly occupied by a pair of 'Cigar' caps:

GA19chassis.jpg


I hope that at $3,000 a copy, Victoria sells enough of these so that some of them will make it to the used/eBay/CL market. One (the only?) virtue in messing with older Gibsons is that they are still much less expensive than Fenders and with high grade new parts, sound considerably better than the originals with their cheapie parts and, with proper disrespect to Fenderistas, all that glitters is not necessarily Fender. :wink: Thanks again. J
 

jp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
4,849
Reaction score
1,762
Location
Pacific Northwest US
Guild Total
4
capnjuan said:
I hope that at $3,000 a copy, Victoria sells enough of these so that some of them will make it to the used/eBay/CL market. One (the only?) virtue in messing with older Gibsons is that they are still much less expensive than Fenders and with high grade new parts, sound considerably better than the originals with their cheapie parts and, with proper disrespect to Fenderistas, all that glitters is not necessarily Fender. :wink: Thanks again. J
Yup capn,
Would love to fool around for a while with a Regal II model--a pretty amazing concept to be able to mix and match power and preamp tubes with electronic impunity.

I too feel that there are a lot more decent Gibsons (and other) amps besides the GA-40. I've no doubt that an upgrade of key parts in my Falcon will notch it up beyond the "uninspiring piece of shit" that the authors claim it is. Sometimes I feel that amps are seemingly judged not only against a benchmark of elite "classic" amps, but also with specific genres of music in mind. Often I feel that great sounds come from the gazillions of hours a player spends getting to know his/her gear and what it can do. I've got a buddy who's played a $200 guitar for years through a $150 Crate solid state practice amp. He plays pretty highly charged rock and roll/punk, and his tone is unique, amazing, and integral to the band's sound. I guess one never knows what kind of sound inspires someone. My Falcon makes me want to play 60s surf pop all day long.
 

Default

Super Moderator
Platinum Supporting
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
13,595
Reaction score
3,008
Location
Philly, or thereabouts
Guild Total
11
jp, I chalk that up to "everyone is an emperor in their own bathtub" syndrome.

An amp should sound just like this, or it's no good.

Of course, what a good amp sounds like changes every couple of years.
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
Hi JP and Steve: I thought the remark about the Falcon was too bad. The amp he played - apparently once - could have needed repair or fresh tubes, or could of had a bad speaker but mostly the sound that day didn't match whatever his idea of excellence was at the time - however long ago it was.

I'ts not too hard to imagine that every time the words 'Gibson Falcon' come up, the first words out of his mouth are 'crappy amp'; like someone who tried Gouda cheese once and decided that since it didn't taste like Swiss, it couldn't possibly be any good; when applied to nearly everything, this is usually called prejudice. Agree that people can get all kinds of tone out of all kinds of equipment and the simple fact that an amp doesn't have a Fender tag on it only means that it isn't a Fender, not that it doesn't sound good in its own right.

cj
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
Yup; know the feeling :( I think this one with the 12" Jensen would be better for guitar than the one with the 4 - 8" Jensens that sold in January.
 

mad dog

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
1,269
Reaction score
240
Location
Montclair, NJ
The Falcon is not a crappy amp, in my limited experience. It pales in some ways next to the GA40, but beats it in others. If you're looking for clean with some bite and warmth, the Falcon is probably the better choice. Especially with a good ceramic speaker in there.

All these amps are tools really, not equally suitable for all tasks. I'm playing my GA40 a lot lately. It has some kind of jaw dropping mojo, but not the volume or headroom to compete in louder environments. No matter. I've never heard anything quite like it, so it stays.

The Vicky Regal II is a cool amp, My favorite Vicky though is the Victorilux 1x15 with 6L6s. PHAT.
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
Hi Michael; thanks for your comments on the Les Paul and the Falcon and don't doubt that the Victoria amps are good stuff. Still diggin' the Ampeg?

Regards, John
 

mad dog

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
1,269
Reaction score
240
Location
Montclair, NJ
John:

Yes I am. Still working out the kinks in the Gemini II ... trying my third or fourth speaker, an Emi Big Ben. Big everything, maybe too much bass. Not sure yet. Could end up back with the stock CTS ceramic, which sounds quite good. There's a persistent feedback noise in the reverb. Thought it was the reverb driver tube, but after a swap it's still there. Must be the way the pan is mounted to the cabinet frame. So have to get in there and remount it. And so on. There are some great sounds in this amp.

Michael D.
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
Hi Michael: the image below is a fragment from the Gem II schematic; the reverb drive tube V6 has a 10K/5W plate resistor and a 330 ohm/2W cathode resistor - magenta boxes. The linked schematic below indicates that tap F in the power supply is furnishing 390VDC to the 10K plate resistor; that is, V6 sees a constant supply of high voltage DC whether the reverb is being used or not. Unless changed recently, either of these resistors could be generating a lot of noise.

Unlike Fender who coupled reverb cans with a transformer and Guild who did it with a speaker, Ampeg is using a capacitor. There are two caps in blue boxes; the upper one is .47 - a beefy boy - and the other is .02; like the resistors, these caps see constant high voltage whether the reverb is switched in or not and could be leaking DC.

gemini2reverb.jpg


If you're lucky, you might be able to clean it up w/ a can of De-Oxit / CAIG red; the pots, the connections in/out of the reverb can, the chassis connections out/in to and from the reverb can, and last but not least, the button in the footswitch could have dirty contacts or the contacts could be burned to the point where they make crappy contact. You might try the clean-'em-up first before going the technical intervention route. Not sure about the bass; will look again, hope this helps.

Best Wishes, John


Schematic
 

mad dog

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
1,269
Reaction score
240
Location
Montclair, NJ
John: That very well may help. I will check the mounting first. A friend of mine has owned several Geminis ... says feedback due to poor isolation and rigid mounting is common. I never would have thought of that. Unlike with Fenders, in the Gem II the tank is mounted underneath the plywood panel separating amp and speaker sections. Also unlike Fender, they do not use bags, or cardboard/wood mounting plates, or foam strips glued to the tank. This via my friend. So I have to get in there and check that before moving on to circuit stuff.

Thanks for the tip on this!
Michael D.
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
Hi Michael; here's hoping it's something that simple; the old Gibsons use the rubber mounts between the can and the cabinet bottom that, over the years, oxided and lost there pliablity. Whatever you want to say about Gibson tone, the amps have a fairly low build standard. Hope you get it going good! J
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
Recent high-end Gibson amp sales .. hard not to think that the Tonequest article had some influence on these prices;

GA18 museum grade $1,525: cleaner than clean; my copy of the same speaker recently sold to a BB member: Auction Link

tq01.jpg


GA45 Maestro 4-8” Jensens $1,301 Auction Link

tq02.jpg


GA40 Les Paul museum grade $1,410 Auction Link

tq03.jpg


GA40 Les Paul, stock $1,819 Auction Link

tq04.jpg


By way of price/value comparison, this is a pic of a Clark Beaufort with reverb for sale over on The Gear Page for $1,450 - more or less what a mint GA18 or stock GA40/GA45 is going for on eBay:

clark01-1.jpg
 

jp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
4,849
Reaction score
1,762
Location
Pacific Northwest US
Guild Total
4
I think that's just plain nuts. What I've noticed is that prices for Mesa Boogies, the archetypal boutique amps, are slowly dropping. I think these are great for career musicians. In particular, the DCs, Nomads, F-series and Subway series. These are great choices that come in decent wattage variations and loaded with 6L6s or EL-84s. People are still trying to get the big prices for them, but they're obtainable from $450-700, 20-100 watts, some in both combo and head form. Kinda funny how they've become the big dog, and are, I feel becoming underrated, especially when compared in the same breath to the newer boutique amps. Customer service is also exceptional.
 

Default

Super Moderator
Platinum Supporting
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
13,595
Reaction score
3,008
Location
Philly, or thereabouts
Guild Total
11
The higher wattage stuff (with the exception of Fender/Marshall) doesn't seem to be too healthy either.

Vt-40's are just dead in the water.
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
jp said:
I think that's just plain nuts.....
Agree: if the Clark represents as good as can be made, very high tone standard, and 20 more years of useful life because it's late model, then what's the explanation for the prices paid for the Gibbies? Why isn't this the same 'I-just-wanna-hear-what-it-sounds-like-and-I-can-afford-it' behavior that created the $3,500 Bassman? Also think the top of the market is doing fine as are the Supros/Silvertones but the middle of the market is swampy .... anyone care for a Tbass? :wink:
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
"...Gonna take you higher ...." Sylvester Stone. Killer Supro S6450; reverb/trem, twin 12" speakers. $2,025 / Auction Link Although this one is near-mint, these were +/- $1,500 a year ago.

supro.jpg
 

capnjuan

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
4
Location
FL
'Nudder one: Gibson GA40 two tone, Jensen Alnico 5s; $1,650 bought by zero-transaction eBay newbie... :shock:

ga40b.jpg
 
Top