Guild Moving to CT?? Have you seen this?

Bob Taylor is getting old enough and rich enough to retire.
Will Taylor Guitar be Fenders next target?
I know they can then call the company Wal-Mart Guitar!

Chazmo said:

(and your Tacomas!)

Jane, you'll forgive me if I'm very skeptical about this... They're consolidating. Pure and simple. Having so recently moved production to Tacoma, and been working the kinks out there, I can't imagine this will be an easy move for the brand. THey had a real talent pool up at Tacoma. This is a real disappointment.

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I have to agree here. I think this is going to hurt the Guild line. You had some real talented people with a proven history of guitar manufacturing making the line and now you're moving it to an unknown (read that as lower paid) workforce? I wish I had the money to pick up a Tacoma made Guild right now.

bluegrass jubilee said:

my understanding is that this had nothing to do with the taylor distribution deal, at all. strictly a manufacturing consolidation move. the question being asked inside fender must be 'why would you run two plants seperately at moderate capacity when you can run one?'. mergers and buyouts are messy business.

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The Taylor European distribution deal really makes their statement about "meeting the demand for Guild guitars worldwide" smell very fishy. Are their European salespeople going to carry both guitars? With Taylor as the clearly dominant brand and the salespeople's tendency to follow paths of least resistance will the treat both brands equally? Frankly, I doubt it. Every word of FMIC's statement reeks. About the only things that Ovations and Guilds have in common are frets and strings. How do you teach someone skilled in injection molding a guitar body how to build one of wood? Why close a factory like Tacoma unless you don't intend to make guitars from wood.

Here's my take. At one point FMIC will put out a press release that the are finally confident that Guilds, formerly known as GADs, are equal to their Hoboken/Westerly/Corona/Tacoma (and maybe even Connecticut) ancestors so all production will be shifted to Asia, and maybe, just maybe, they'll make an electric or two in the US since that is all the factory knows how to do.

Message to Don: Put this thread in a time capsule then bring it out in a few years -- it will be interesting to see who is right about this mess.

Wonder where they will be made, Korea?

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Or Viet Nam. Wouldn't that be a kick in the butt.

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Hey! I'll be able to afford a D-55 if they move production to Viet Nam.
I'll be the guy to talk to. 8)

Seriously folks, I'd read that Ovation's factory was set up for very precise
manufacturing processes. It might not be all bad.

But it sure looks bad.

But I'm off to Cambodia tomorrow for 8 days. So I will try not to worry
too much about it.

ajgorman said:

I have been a loyal customer, fan, and supporter of Guild for more tha three decades. I confess this is the most disappointed I have been and this has put me in a melancholy mood. I didn't post earlier because I was truly shocked.

[ ... ]

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AJ,

Oddly I know exactly how you feel, and this is really bothering me. First of all, though I've known about Guilds since I started playing in the '70s, I only recently got into the Guild world. it was completely by accident that I fell in love with my Tacoma-built F512 at my neighborhood guitar store. I adore this guitar, and due in large part to LTG I've learned so much here about the wonderful, tumultuous history of Al Dronge's company.

I have come to view the Tacoma era as a re-birth of Guild and I thought I was growing to respect and admire FMIC's handling of things. That was until yesterday. I thought Fender had come in in the '90s, seen Guild languishing and the Westerly plant in a declining state and taken action to revive the brand. Then, I saw that they realized Corona was no place to be making Guild acoustics after all, and they took action again to marry Guild with Tacoma. Brilliant, I thought. I thought FMIC was out to save this wonderful, top-notch legacy. I viewed the GAD stuff as a way to compete world-wide without sacrificing the true brand identity (i.e., keeping the great stuff alive).

Now, I'm completely disillusioned and I've done a 180 on Fender. Sigh. Sorry, I just need to vent, and AJ I'm with you. I feel we are witnessing the death of something wonderful, and I see no reason for it!

I am not going to pass final judgment on this until it plays out with production of guitars in CT and I have an opportunity to observe the quality and whether is up to our expected standards and brand reputation. If not, then they will have lost me for good.

FMIC is taking a real gamble and risking a very loyal customer base and brand reputation. This will now be the third production venue change since 2001. Either they are very confident that they can pull this off successfully, and maybe if not, as has been suggested in this thread, they may move it all to China.

I'm a die hard Guild loyalist and I will hang on to the bitter end as I do with all things in life, but I remain guardedly optimistic. We'll see what happens.

I was also skeptical and very critical of the Taylor "distribution" deal. I think FMIC is just buying some time until Talyor fully sells out. If this move from Tacoma really happens this year, we will see how production is impacted pretty soon, but I don't like the smell of what's going on right now at all. I think the likelihood of folks moving across the country from Tacoma is about as likely as they were to go to Corona from Westerly. I mean, think about it from the perspective of those people in Tacoma- how much loyalty could they really have to Guild (or FMIC) at this point?

:shock: I have been reminded once again, of many of the sad truths I have learned over my years of being involved with Fortune 500 folks.
First, everything is always about the short term stock price. When in a turndown period, lay off production workers, costs decline, stocks rise...for the moment, the "bean counters can bail out on the slight uptick, before the stockholders understand that the widgets are not being produced any longer.
I have been thru this with many Corps., who are no longer around.
This happens when accounting overides production, and marketing people. Nothing is new. Remember Gibsons moves?
Heres the problem, top grade acoustic guitars are not produced like widgets. It requires skilled craftsmen.
This requires a degree of experience level, which only comes over time,....thus the conflict is always between fine guitars vs. short- term thinking by management.
Remember the sales stalling when the move was to Cal. ? This will be the same at best. Then came the Tacoma move, sales were slow at first, no guitars at the dealers, but slowly the Guild image rose, new models appeared, quality was apparent, sales rose again, in comes the pin heads, and lets do this all again.
I feel for the craftsmen, the marketing people, and all of the loyal Guild fans, who have endured so many short term moves.
This is why I now only work for myself, and have no loyality to any company. I am a hired gun, sales firm able to pack up and turn on a moments notice.
I really like Guilds, I really like Gibson...but if you want a new fine, mass production guitar, with a history of constance and quality, cancel your Guild order, which is on hold anyway, and consider a family built Martin.
I guess I am disowned, but this is MHO.
Dale.

california said:

bluegrass jubilee said:

Are their European salespeople going to carry both guitars?

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That's the idea.....Instead of putting two sales people in a territory, you can put one who represents both lines. He or she can then sell to stores that carry both lines or to stores that carry one or the other.

Jim

fungusyoung said:

I think FMIC is just buying some time until Talyor fully sells out.

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To me, it appears to be more like living together to see if you want to get married.

fungusyoung said:

I mean, think about it from the perspective of those people in Tacoma- how much loyalty could they really have to Guild (or FMIC) at this point?

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How much trust would they have in FMIC. A couple of years ago, they were all in danger of losing their jobs until FMIC came in and saved the company their worked for. Then, FMIC moved Guild production there and all appearances were that the future of their jobs was bright.

Now this happens. If you lived in the Pacific Northwest, would you move to Connecticut based on what the people at FMIC tell you?

Jim

Maybe I'll have to follow Hans' lead & change LTG to "LTG, 1952-2008"

jwsamuel said:

How much trust would they have in FMIC. A couple of years ago, they were all in danger of losing their jobs until FMIC came in and saved the company their worked for. Then, FMIC moved Guild production there and all appearances were that the future of their jobs was bright.

Now this happens. If you lived in the Pacific Northwest, would you move to Connecticut based on what the people at FMIC tell you?

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I don't think anyone in their right mind would trust FMIC. Even though I love some of their products, I certainly don't. I can't imagine anyone in Tacoma right now not feeling like a disillusioned pawn, and that is really sad. If they get anyone to come East from Tacoma, I'd be fairly surprised. I'd be even more surprised if FMIC puts real aggressive incentive & re-location packages on the table instead of focusing on severance because I bet think they have no clear plans for what Guild will look like in CT. I think it's perfectly logical to assume that they could try to replace that business segment with Taylors along with (cough, cough) Fender and Ovation acoustics as well as GAD's.

fungusyoung said:

I think it's perfectly logical to assume that they could try to replace that business segment with Taylors along with (cough, cough) Fender and Ovation acoustics as well as GAD's.

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Since this is all speculation, let me take the speculation further. How about this:

Taylor becomes FMIC's made in USA, high-end brand. The GAD series becomes all the is left of Guild and the Chinese-made guitars become FMIC's mid-price brand. Fender acoustics remain as the low-priced brand. And Ovation stays as the non-traditional brand.

Jim

All the above, plus they finally shut down the Nashville Custom/Repair shop and leave repairs to Kaman Music up in CT. Because shipping broken GADs to China for repair is too expensive, and having Nashville take care of GADs is too pricey.

there's a pretty good discussion happening over at AG about this topic as well

Also good discussion on the Tacoma forum where the posts tend to echo the sense of loss and betrayal a lot of us are feeling.

Honestly, the best I'm letting myself hope for in terms of USA-made Guild guitars is that there will be some sort of custom shop reissues of Guild designs to carry on the tradition as the years go forward. Then maybe I'll get a pleasant surprise.

I think this news is mainly another chapter in the contraction of the American-made guitar industry (or American-made anything for that matter). The realists have an easier time swallowing this than I do, but that's okay, too. Why sweat something you can't touch or change?

With little incentive remaining to promote Tacoma Guild guitars, what will FMIC do with its remaining stock at the factory and in dealer inventories?

Are there any lessons from the Westerly and Corona transitions that shed a light on what might happen?

With little incentive remaining to promote Tacoma Guild guitars, what will FMIC do with its remaining stock at the factory and in dealer inventories?

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Lemons to Lemonade:

Maybe they'll have a big Garage sale when they close the Tacoma plant & LTG'ers & the Tacoma fans will get "Early Bird Status".

Clue:

hideglue said:

Clue:

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:roll: 8)