Global Warming, One More Time With Humour

john_kidder

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West R Lee said:
Just heard on the news that after an extensive study by several South American scientists, today, on the anniversary of Al Gore's sharing of the Nobel Prize for insisting that the Polar cap could be gone in as little as 7 years, that it has actually shrunk by 1% in the last hunderd years, and that the Antarctic ice cap has enlarged by over 700,000 square miles in that same time frame. All boils down to who you believe I guess.

West

Must have been Fox News? Google, just for instance, "Larsen Ice Shelf Collapse" for a little data from Antartica (like this Arctic ice as simulated by the ESOP model (note this speaks to ice volume rather than area. Then try "Arctic Ice Decrease" for some from the North (like this NASA-funded study) Abrupt Ice Retreat Could Produce Ice-Free Arctic Summers by 2040


Honest to god, West, there is just no serious debate in the scientific community worldwide. None. A few fringers, of course, but they're rapidly gaining the same status now given to the flat-earthers. Or to those who think the earth was created from the whole cloth 6,000 years ago. The press, of course, likes to spend time reporting on whatever they can make appear controversial.

Soon, one hopes, their focus will shift to the real controversies facing us: how do we adapt to rapid and unpredictable changes in massive systems on which our lives are absolutely dependent? I live in a much-blessed part of the world, here in fabulously wealthy British Columbia, one of the most favoured places in fabulously wealthy North America. ANd we can do nothing about the fact that the pine forests of the interior of BC are nearly gone (so far, about 13% of the total area of Texas is now covered with dead trees) from an infestation of beetles directly attributable to (very slightly) warmer winters. And the scientific community, again, worldwide, again, pretty close to unanimous, is clear that that (so far) slight rise is a consequence of human activity causing a rise in greenhouse gases, which reduce the ability of the earth to radiate absorbed solar energy back to space. And that the changes are accelerating due to a number of positive feedback effects - warmer winters in the north mean reduced snow cover and earlier spring melts which means greater solar absorption in what we used to call "permafrost" which is now melting and beginning to release enormous ancient stores of methane, which is one of the most effective greenhouse gases of all. There is no serious debate about this, West.

Our grandchildren will shake their heads in disbelief and wonder that we failed to react to the abundant evidence. Just the way we do now when we think of anyone objecting to Galileo's suggestions that the earth went around the sun - how could they possibly have failed to see? And, more importantly, how could they possibly have just carried on as if nothing had changed?
 

West R Lee

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Good that we can debate this without blowing our stacks.....shows the maturity of the membership here.

I just finished watching an unbiased documentary on "The Science Channel" about glabal warming. The narrator constantly referred to it as "so called global warming". They were studying a glacier in the Antarctic, when these scientists became all excited over this find where 14,000 year ice had surfaced in a several miles long line. The surfacing of the ice was due to pressure created by the weight of the glacier somehow.

Anyway, they did extensive testing of the samples and discovered that in this 14,000 year old ice, they called "dirt ice", that 14,000 years ago the Earth warmed 10 degrees in 20 years. The most dramatic temperature global change ever known. There were no man made CFC's then, no cars, no industry. These scientists felt stongly that the abrupt change was due to a gigantic methane release from ocean floor fissures. That too was disproven. They had no explanation.

The narrator was very familiar with the Antarctic, and had done extensive study there himself. The scientists began to show him an area in which he had personally studied on several occasions. They began to explain how these glaciers had redeeded. Just as quickly, the narrator showed them glaciers in other areas of the Antarctic which had increased in size.

http://science.discovery.com/tv-schedul ... 9.120360.0.

I think it airs tomorrow night too John.

Again John, I have no doubt that global temperatures may be increasing slightly, but feel strongly that if they are, it is a normal recurring cycle, one that's taken place since the dawn of time.

I've got a world of respect for you John, I just disagree. I buy into the whole fairy tale John, that the Earth was created by God. I buy it hook, line and sinker. I watch Fox News daily, and am glad I have it as an alternative. I voted for George Bush, and for his father. I'd vote for him again, even though I don't agree with some of his policies. I've even worked for the Republican party. I still love YOU though John! :wink: :)

West
 

Jeff

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Lesse here, Gilmer Tx, elevation 367 ft above sea level.

Good plan West, occupy high ground & don't build in the creek bottoms.

How deep do you have to drill for water?
 

Scratch

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West R Lee said:
Good that we can debate this without blowing our stacks.....shows the maturity of the membership here.

I just finished watching an unbiased documentary on "The Science Channel" about glabal warming. The narrator constantly referred to it as "so called global warming". They were studying a glacier in the Antarctic, when these scientists became all excited over this find where 14,000 year ice had surfaced in a several miles long line. The surfacing of the ice was due to pressure created by the weight of the glacier somehow.

Anyway, they did extensive testing of the samples and discovered that in this 14,000 year old ice, they called "dirt ice", that 14,000 years ago the Earth warmed 10 degrees in 20 years. The most dramatic temperature global change ever known. There were no man made CFC's then, no cars, no industry. These scientists felt stongly that the abrupt change was due to a gigantic methane release from ocean floor fissures. That too was disproven. They had no explanation.

The narrator was very familiar with the Antarctic, and had done extensive study there himself. The scientists began to show him an area in which he had personally studied on several occasions. They began to explain how these glaciers had redeeded. Just as quickly, the narrator showed them glaciers in other areas of the Antarctic which had increased in size.

http://science.discovery.com/tv-schedul ... 9.120360.0.

I think it airs tomorrow night too John.

Again John, I have no doubt that global temperatures may be increasing slightly, but feel strongly that if they are, it is a normal recurring cycle, one that's taken place since the dawn of time.

I've got a world of respect for you John, I just disagree. I buy into the whole fairy tale John, that the Earth was created by God. I buy it hook, line and sinker. I watch Fox News daily, and am glad I have it as an alternative. I voted for George Bush, and for his father. I'd vote for him again, even though I don't agree with some of his policies. I've even worked for the Republican party. I still love YOU though John! :wink: :)

West

Guess if we all agreed the world would be flat! Big Al now has his trophy; so does Barry Bonds; and the Inuits miss their land bridge! You're a good guy, John... Luv ya man...
 

West R Lee

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And BTW, the "Lazy B" will have a community water supply. :wink: Just like in town....high speed internet and cable TV. Just have to be in my own sewage treatment plant....an aerobic system, got to put in my own underground propane tank too. I'll fir that baby with a whole house generator, and a water well for watering, that I can tap for potable water, and we're self sufficient.

West
 

JerryR

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West R Lee said:
And BTW, the "Lazy B" will have a community water supply. :wink: Just like in town....high speed internet and cable TV. Just have to be in my own sewage treatment plant....an aerobic system, got to put in my own underground propane tank too. I'll fir that baby with a whole house generator, and a water well for watering, that I can tap for potable water, and we're self sufficient.

West


And plenty of munitions - case the Gummint comes fer yer :mrgreen:
 

capnjuan

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West R Lee said:
Just have to be in my own sewage treatment plant .... West
Hi JD: A neighbor/friend built a more better gooder house across the street; he has his own digestor too. Quite a piece of work. About 1/3 the size of a Greyhound bus; 6 concrete tank tops, pumps, grinders, fans, mulitiple electrical connections and instruments. Has to have it inspected by the County Health Department every 6 months; discharges treated 'effluent' blended with city water through a network of small diameter hoses a few inches under the surface of his lawn .... his grass is nice and green :wink:

25-30 used DV52s or thereabouts .... not inexpensive. cj
 

West R Lee

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Yep, the aerobic system has 3 sprinkler heads and discharges after the water leaves the 3rd tank in series. You are supposed to be able to drink it from there....don't know of anyone who has....and lived to tell about it anyway.

Also toying with the idea of a safe room. Builder already has the door...about 4" thick with the big bolts all the way down. He installs rebar and forms up for a giant box and installs the door. He can climate control it if you like with air ducts. It would be good for a fire....or Mrs. West in the event of the "Boogie Man" popping up.......combination lock from either side.

West
 

FNG

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Hey West, if I was building a house in Tornado Alley, I would definitely have a shelter add-on or safe room.
 

capnjuan

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West R Lee said:
Also toying with the idea of a safe room. Builder already has the door...about 4" thick with the big bolts all the way down.
West
Our house has an interior bathroom that is separated from the exterior wall and has a plaster, dropped ceiling offering a little more H-cane protection. Would only take one ugly weather event to make you wish you'd spent the money or glad you did ... and it would add value if/when the house changes hand. cj
 

Graham

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West R Lee said:
Also toying with the idea of a safe room. Builder already has the door...about 4" thick with the big bolts all the way down. He installs rebar and forms up for a giant box and installs the door. He can climate control it if you like with air ducts. It would be good for a fire....or Mrs. West in the event of the "Boogie Man" popping up.......combination lock from either side.

West

Come on West, it's for the D-100 that's coming to town one day. :wink:
 

West R Lee

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:lol: I'll get the safe room long before the D100 Grahamster. And as far as tornado alley, they seem to travel in narrow strips of land around here, and the Lazy B is going slap dab in the middle of one of those narrow corridors.......on top of a hill no less.....Mrs. West doesn't know the torando alley part yet. SSSHHHH! I love storms.

This shouldn't be in the "Funny Papers" section, but you know that in the Jarrell, Texas Tornado, an F5, the pavement and house foundations were sucked out of the ground. I don't think any type of room would have been much protection.

http://www.realestatedamages.com/Resear ... arrell.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarrell_Tornado

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/coolimg/jarrell/index.html

Fascinating satellite loop of that storm. I'm somewhere under the eastern most big blob.

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/coolimg/jarrell/animjrls.htm

West
 

john_kidder

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West - meetings last night, couldn't get to the TV.

But this discussion about buildings is very interesting as well. I'm trying to evaluate options for our place in Ashcroft - not comparable to Texas, but we do get more sun that anywhere else in Canada (total precip about 4-5 inches/yr, sagebrush, cactus, rattlesnakes, kind of like the Big Bend country), plus we have a river running by. Gotta get it off the grid.

Solar hot water's a natural, ?do we pipe it through the floor for radiant heat/coooling?, solar electricity still not cost-effective for lighting/general use, but how about a micro-hydro turbine in the river?, at least use the flow of the river to power the irrigation pumps, etc. Recycyle grey water in the houses?

And, just presuming for the moment that there may be some merit to a little risk aversion so one might plan for warming whether onr not it's actually occurring, it seems likely that our rivers will go to peak flows earlier in spring and get drier earlier in autumn. How do we plan for reduced water availability then - we have no ground water to speak of here in the desert, it's gotta come from the river.

Fun, really. Little need for tornado doors, anyway.
 

Graham

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f272223b.jpg


We're still doing the humour thing, right?
 

West R Lee

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Oh Grammy.....what are we going to do with you.

John, you're way over my head. In Texas, we now just bury a big propane tank to heat our water etc, or use good old fashioned electricity or tie into a natural gas supply which we won't have at the Lazy B. We'll be going with a Rinnai tankless, instant hot water heater. As for a source of water....my brother has has a 1500 foot deep water well with a 6" casing. He wanted to be sure and be way under any possible contaminents. His water is fabulous.The last time I lived in the country, I had a 70' deep 3' well.

My builder has just completed a radiant air conditioning system he's very proud of, the jury is still out on those for me...we'll see....underground coils and all. Very energy effecient supposedly. He is a serious energy efficiency nut and is trying desperately to talk me out of a wood burning fireplace. :( He likes the fake ones with gas logs.

But truly, the most energy saving phenomenon that I've personally seen and felt, is the spray in foam insulation. 2000 to 2500 square foot homes here have run $250 -350 summer electric bills years ago. I've seen more than a few of the new homes equipped with the spray foam run $60 to $70. My wife and I attented a couple of home showings on 100 degree days. They spray the decking and the rafters with the foam which expands to fill all cracks and crevasses. For demonstration, they leave a foot long exposed underside of a rafter 2" by 6". The board just radiates heat at the exposed spot, right next to a spot that is virtually room temperature. They tout this stuff as maintaining a 5 degree differential between living area and attic....I think it's less than that. It's pricey, but I think you'd recoop the added cost if a few years of energy savings. I'm sure it holds heat in as well.

I didn't know there were places that arid in Canada, but only recently discovered there were places like that in Washington State. You could fill many libraries with what I don't know.

West
 

Jeff

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West R Lee said:
Oh Grammy.....what are we going to do with you.

John, you're way over my head. In Texas, we now just bury a big propane tank to heat our water etc, or use good old fashioned electricity. We'll be going with a Rinnai tankless, instant hot water heater. As for a source of water....my brother has has a 1500 foot deep water well with a 6" casing. He wanted to be sure and be way under any possible contaminents. His water is fabulous.The last time I lived in the country, I had a 70' deep 3' well.

My builder .........is trying desperately to talk me out of a wood burning fireplace. :( He likes the fake ones with gas logs.

West
\

Gotta have at least one wood heat source, least here at my Casa.
Darned gas fireplaces don't make any noise, no crackle & pop. Wood fires are the best, terrible environmental impact I'm sure.

Mebbe scrounging firewood in Texas isn't as easy as it is here.

Neighbors all joke about my woodstack, that is till the power goes out for a few days & all the high efficiencey, high tech gas appliances are useless because they need electricity to operate.
 

West R Lee

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I'll have enough oak after I clear the Lazy B for all of Upshur County to burn fire wood for the winter Jeff. Live oak, red oak, pin oak and hickory. We've got one beautiful hickory that I'm afraid is going to have to come down for the foundation work. I'm going to try to save it.

Our plan includes a 10' stone wood burning fireplace with a 5' arched opening in the living area Jeff...I may do a small gas fireplace in the game/music room. Then hopefully, another stone woodburning fireplace or firepit on the picking porch.

http://www.garrellassociates.com/siteim ... pporch.jpg

The living area.

http://www.garrellassociates.com/siteim ... geroom.jpg

And the future game/music room.

http://www.garrellassociates.com/siteim ... ngroom.jpg

West
 
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