Darryl Hattenhauer
Venerated Member
Billy,
I just went to your site. It says you have a CD, but I can't find it. Do you have some for sale?
I just went to your site. It says you have a CD, but I can't find it. Do you have some for sale?
Fitting a CE-100DP with a Bigsby?
- Thread starter carljoensson
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billydlight
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I like metal bases they give you more twang. I like twang. The finish is not of as much importance to me.
billydlight
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Yeah you can paypal $12.50 to bdl@thenetmark.com include your adres and I'll send you one.
It's a rocker!
It's a rocker!
Darryl Hattenhauer
Venerated Member
Done. I've listened to some of the cuts at your site, and some of it reminds me of Bugs Henderson, who is one of my faves.
I was thinking that the metal base would give more twang and brights. So I think I'll try a wooden base on my jazz guitar.
I was thinking that the metal base would give more twang and brights. So I think I'll try a wooden base on my jazz guitar.
carljoensson
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Hi again and Merry Christmas everybody!
My little Bigsbyproject is moving on. All the parts have arrived and I should be moving along shortly. Went around to the local luthier during the busy days before Christmas and he didn't seem to interested in mounting the Bigsby. "You can do it yourself" he assured me. And really it doesn't seem to problematic.
All I've got to do is drill three small holes, which should be as wide as the "inner diameter" of the screws according to the luthier. My father-in-law who is a carpenter thought I could drill even smaller holes - but maybe that will make the screws expand the hole too much - not good, right?
This is what it looks like now (I haven't drilled anything yet).
It doesn't seem to hard to drill. The screws that came with the Bigsby are longer than the ones that held the old original tailpiece. The screws are 3 mm thick, if I measure inbetween the screwthreads I get a reading of 2,2 mm. So I reckon if I buy a 2mm drill that should work well.
But what about the old holes? Do I need to fill them, before drilling the new ones? The Luthier suggested doing that. And then I thought, hmm, but what if I would like to remove the bigsby and put the old tailpiece back again?
I'd be thankful for advice and suggestions!!
...and a Happy New Year
Carl
(PS. ...puzzles me, why was the original tailpiece mounted a little bit off center? In the picture you can see where the two pieces of the sides meet. For me though, I'll just let the original hole for the strap plug be the center. DS.)
My little Bigsbyproject is moving on. All the parts have arrived and I should be moving along shortly. Went around to the local luthier during the busy days before Christmas and he didn't seem to interested in mounting the Bigsby. "You can do it yourself" he assured me. And really it doesn't seem to problematic.
All I've got to do is drill three small holes, which should be as wide as the "inner diameter" of the screws according to the luthier. My father-in-law who is a carpenter thought I could drill even smaller holes - but maybe that will make the screws expand the hole too much - not good, right?
This is what it looks like now (I haven't drilled anything yet).
It doesn't seem to hard to drill. The screws that came with the Bigsby are longer than the ones that held the old original tailpiece. The screws are 3 mm thick, if I measure inbetween the screwthreads I get a reading of 2,2 mm. So I reckon if I buy a 2mm drill that should work well.
But what about the old holes? Do I need to fill them, before drilling the new ones? The Luthier suggested doing that. And then I thought, hmm, but what if I would like to remove the bigsby and put the old tailpiece back again?
I'd be thankful for advice and suggestions!!
...and a Happy New Year
Carl
(PS. ...puzzles me, why was the original tailpiece mounted a little bit off center? In the picture you can see where the two pieces of the sides meet. For me though, I'll just let the original hole for the strap plug be the center. DS.)
Darryl Hattenhauer
Venerated Member
Carl,
You have raised some points that i have been wondering about myself.
You have raised some points that i have been wondering about myself.
I believe you and the luthier are right, and I hope we get some posts from the technical wizards (like Jeff the woodworker).
Again, I think you're right. This is what I do.
I've often wondered the same thing, and I hope we get some posts from the technical wizards (like Coastie the woodpecker).
[quote="carljoensson"
(PS. ...puzzles me, why was the original tailpiece mounted a little bit off center? In the picture you can see where the two pieces of the sides meet. For me though, I'll just let the original hole for the strap plug be the center. DS.)[/quote]
Carl,
I see a lot of arch-top guitars (and mandolins!) with off-centered tailpieces.
I used to think that it was:
a) a mistake (sloppy work) on the part of the installer at the factory, or
b) a deliberate decision, made to remedy an earlier mistake in the neck/body 'left to right' fit (i.e., the neck fits into the body in a way that makes the center-line of the neck run slightly to the left or right (bass or treble) of the 'dead center point' on the guitar). It happens.
I currently own a few archtop instruments. Among them are a '53 Gibson ES-175D and a '21 Gibson A-4 mandolin. The tailpiece is fine on the 175, but way off on the mandolin (because the neck set was off).
It got me to thinking, so I called up my luthier and asked him if there was any reason that a tailpiece might be off centered to the bass-side.
He said that, in his experience (35 years fixing guitars), the pull of the strings will torque a lot of tailpieces in towards the treble side of the guitar. Accordingly, he thinks that some manufacturers 'cheat' their tailpieces towards the bass side of the guitar to compensate for this.
He said that a hinged Bigsby will definitely flex at the hinge and 'lean' towards the treble side, because of string pressure.
When he sets an archtop up with a Bigsby, he:
1) puts a piece of paper in between the tailpiece and the body to prevent scratches,
2) takes a Long, Long Clamp and clamps from the body by the side of the neck all the way back to the tailpiece (you need a clamp that will open up 20-22" to do this),
3) draws the strings up to tension (without screwing the Bigsby into the guitar) and starts sighting down the neck.
At this point, he's looking for a couple of things. He wants the strings to lie over the neck properly and the bridge to be free from any side-ways pulling motion from the tailpiece being in the wrong place (or, again, the strings 'pulling' the tailpiece into the wrong place). Back to the list:
4) He'll move the tailpiece around (first loosening the string tension and the clamp, moving it where he wants to try it, then retightening everything) until it all lines up correctly over the neck, the bridge and into the tailpiece.
5) When, under tension (so that the flex in the Bigsby is in effect and part of the equation), the strings lie over the neck correctly (low E not too close to the the bass side, high E not too close the treble side), the bridge is happy and doesn't want to move to the bass or treble side (which would pull the strings off of their correct position over the neck) and the strings seem to run into the Bigsby as straight as they should, that's where he sinks the screws for the Bigsby. Might be 'off-center', with the 'dead center point' on the back of the guitar, might not. It'll still be 'on center' for the purposes of the guitar performing correctly with a Bigsby!
Carl, this is the way my Luthier does it. I'm sure that 10 other good luthiers will have 10 different and good ways to do this same job.
But here's something to consider: if it doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun actually doing all this work, why don't you take it to a good repairman? I don't meant whether it interests you, by the way. I mean, do you really want to do it?
To me, this kind of work is incredibly interesting, but I don't have the skill set, the time, or the inclination to 'actually' do it. There's a big difference between being your own guitar tech and performing major surgery on a guitar.
Same goes for potting the pickups. You're gonna feel terrible if you mess it up! Ask Walter Broes who pots his pickups and use that guy! Talk to Hans!
You know, there are different levels of potting a pickup, too. A good friend of mine plays with lots of gain. If he doesn't absolutely soak a pickup in wax, it will squeal like a banshee! If you heard his pickups, you might think the sound really 'dead', but then you're not playing a Les Paul Jr. through a Marshall on 10! Again, talk to Walter and Hans about that. Talk to a couple of local repairmen, or luthiers that people recommend to you in your part of the world. Tell them 'how loud' you want to play, what type of music you want to play and what kind of amps you'll be playing through. It all makes a difference.
Anyway, it sounds like you are going to have a really 'happening' guitar.
I'm very happy for you!!
(PS. ...puzzles me, why was the original tailpiece mounted a little bit off center? In the picture you can see where the two pieces of the sides meet. For me though, I'll just let the original hole for the strap plug be the center. DS.)[/quote]
Carl,
I see a lot of arch-top guitars (and mandolins!) with off-centered tailpieces.
I used to think that it was:
a) a mistake (sloppy work) on the part of the installer at the factory, or
b) a deliberate decision, made to remedy an earlier mistake in the neck/body 'left to right' fit (i.e., the neck fits into the body in a way that makes the center-line of the neck run slightly to the left or right (bass or treble) of the 'dead center point' on the guitar). It happens.
I currently own a few archtop instruments. Among them are a '53 Gibson ES-175D and a '21 Gibson A-4 mandolin. The tailpiece is fine on the 175, but way off on the mandolin (because the neck set was off).
It got me to thinking, so I called up my luthier and asked him if there was any reason that a tailpiece might be off centered to the bass-side.
He said that, in his experience (35 years fixing guitars), the pull of the strings will torque a lot of tailpieces in towards the treble side of the guitar. Accordingly, he thinks that some manufacturers 'cheat' their tailpieces towards the bass side of the guitar to compensate for this.
He said that a hinged Bigsby will definitely flex at the hinge and 'lean' towards the treble side, because of string pressure.
When he sets an archtop up with a Bigsby, he:
1) puts a piece of paper in between the tailpiece and the body to prevent scratches,
2) takes a Long, Long Clamp and clamps from the body by the side of the neck all the way back to the tailpiece (you need a clamp that will open up 20-22" to do this),
3) draws the strings up to tension (without screwing the Bigsby into the guitar) and starts sighting down the neck.
At this point, he's looking for a couple of things. He wants the strings to lie over the neck properly and the bridge to be free from any side-ways pulling motion from the tailpiece being in the wrong place (or, again, the strings 'pulling' the tailpiece into the wrong place). Back to the list:
4) He'll move the tailpiece around (first loosening the string tension and the clamp, moving it where he wants to try it, then retightening everything) until it all lines up correctly over the neck, the bridge and into the tailpiece.
5) When, under tension (so that the flex in the Bigsby is in effect and part of the equation), the strings lie over the neck correctly (low E not too close to the the bass side, high E not too close the treble side), the bridge is happy and doesn't want to move to the bass or treble side (which would pull the strings off of their correct position over the neck) and the strings seem to run into the Bigsby as straight as they should, that's where he sinks the screws for the Bigsby. Might be 'off-center', with the 'dead center point' on the back of the guitar, might not. It'll still be 'on center' for the purposes of the guitar performing correctly with a Bigsby!
Carl, this is the way my Luthier does it. I'm sure that 10 other good luthiers will have 10 different and good ways to do this same job.
But here's something to consider: if it doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun actually doing all this work, why don't you take it to a good repairman? I don't meant whether it interests you, by the way. I mean, do you really want to do it?
To me, this kind of work is incredibly interesting, but I don't have the skill set, the time, or the inclination to 'actually' do it. There's a big difference between being your own guitar tech and performing major surgery on a guitar.
Same goes for potting the pickups. You're gonna feel terrible if you mess it up! Ask Walter Broes who pots his pickups and use that guy! Talk to Hans!
You know, there are different levels of potting a pickup, too. A good friend of mine plays with lots of gain. If he doesn't absolutely soak a pickup in wax, it will squeal like a banshee! If you heard his pickups, you might think the sound really 'dead', but then you're not playing a Les Paul Jr. through a Marshall on 10! Again, talk to Walter and Hans about that. Talk to a couple of local repairmen, or luthiers that people recommend to you in your part of the world. Tell them 'how loud' you want to play, what type of music you want to play and what kind of amps you'll be playing through. It all makes a difference.
Anyway, it sounds like you are going to have a really 'happening' guitar.
I'm very happy for you!!
carljoensson
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Wow! What a generous post! Thankyou very much for taking the time to write all this done. I'm reading it with great interest, but it also makes me think maybe the next-door luthier doesn't take Bigsby-mounting serious enough! Maybe I should look around for alternatives. There ought to be a few more repairmen around.
No, you're right. Since the different tasks have started to pile up it doesn't make much sense doing it all myself. Drilling three holes and putting a Bigsby on seemed easy.
Considering waxpotting, I really am no loud leadplayer at all. I play a Fender Vibrolux amp set clean, with a Paul Cochrane Timmy pedal (OD/Cleanboost) set for minimum break-up (gain at 9-10 o'clock.) My band doesn't really rock hard at all and mostly we'll be playing somewhere inbetween soul, country and folky pop. My idea is to bring in a flavour of Chris Isaak (50/60s) vibratowork, springreverb etc - but it will not really pierce any ears.
Thanks again - I will have to read it through again - but most likely I'll get in touch with a luthier (maybe a new one):
Carl
No, you're right. Since the different tasks have started to pile up it doesn't make much sense doing it all myself. Drilling three holes and putting a Bigsby on seemed easy.
Considering waxpotting, I really am no loud leadplayer at all. I play a Fender Vibrolux amp set clean, with a Paul Cochrane Timmy pedal (OD/Cleanboost) set for minimum break-up (gain at 9-10 o'clock.) My band doesn't really rock hard at all and mostly we'll be playing somewhere inbetween soul, country and folky pop. My idea is to bring in a flavour of Chris Isaak (50/60s) vibratowork, springreverb etc - but it will not really pierce any ears.
Thanks again - I will have to read it through again - but most likely I'll get in touch with a luthier (maybe a new one):
Carl
Fascinating - I ran into the exact same issues when I put a Bigsby on my X500. Posted about it here a little over a year ago:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1807
It's a bit disconcerting when you expect everything to be dead center and then you take the tail piece off and find otherwise. The good news is that it's really not that hard to get it done right. Mine came out fine in the end - even with the Bigsby on it now, the guitar stays in tune remarkably well. Also, I didn't use the clamp method that Gilded describes, but I did use a capo at around the 12th fret to keep the strings from flying all over the place. This helps, but it's not a cure all. Where you're likely to run into trouble is that your strings won't stay attached to the Bigsby when you move it around - without string tension, the bar that the strings attach to is going to spin backwards. You might want to try taping the strings to their posts, or using rubber bands or something to keep them in place. And definitely cover the top with paper or an old t-shirt or something while you're working. Bigsbys have felt pads on the bottom, but you never know...
Go for it!
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1807
It's a bit disconcerting when you expect everything to be dead center and then you take the tail piece off and find otherwise. The good news is that it's really not that hard to get it done right. Mine came out fine in the end - even with the Bigsby on it now, the guitar stays in tune remarkably well. Also, I didn't use the clamp method that Gilded describes, but I did use a capo at around the 12th fret to keep the strings from flying all over the place. This helps, but it's not a cure all. Where you're likely to run into trouble is that your strings won't stay attached to the Bigsby when you move it around - without string tension, the bar that the strings attach to is going to spin backwards. You might want to try taping the strings to their posts, or using rubber bands or something to keep them in place. And definitely cover the top with paper or an old t-shirt or something while you're working. Bigsbys have felt pads on the bottom, but you never know...
Go for it!
carljoensson
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gilded said:
Hey again,
That's gotta mean right, that since the bass strings have higher tension the angle of the tailpiece will move towards the treble side?
If you look at the picture of my guitar above it seems the screws for the tailpiece are moved slightly downwards, toward the treble side. Thus, making the tailpiece point abit towards the bass strings. So it seems the Guild folks must have made this compensation deliberately? After all there's a hole for the ground wire that is drilled exactly center.
/Carl
carljoensson
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northbayj said:
Ooh! "Go for it" - does it mean I should do it myself
Thanks for the input, it's interesting and good to know that others have dealt with these questions too. Really though, I hope I don't have to make new holes for the strap plug etc as well. DOn't want to make a Swiss cheese of my old Guild.
Cheers,
Carl