Is Guild going to do anything about these Jay Turser copies?

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Good question. The whole history of lawsuits over look-alikes and knock offs would probably be a mess. I don't know if Guild ever sued over the Asian copies of their F50s and 12 strings.
 

HoboKen

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They may have a case.

But, then Epiphone might have a case against Guild for taking their 30's, 40's & 50's arrowhead inlay design when Guild started to do the custom Guilds in the late 50's & early 60's that are now considered regular upper-end Guilds.

HoboKen
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Maybe the guitar as a whole (and everything on it) has to be such an exact copy that it constitutes an attempt to fool people--like a counterfeit Rolex, etc.
 

capnjuan

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What about Guild's 'replicating', except for 'eccentric' horns, the Gibson SG in the form of S-90/100 Polaras or, as it was said somewhere here, Guild knocking off the Gibson J Models and calling them F40s and 50s?

The Gibson - Greco/Tokai/Orville 'Moustache' lawsuits of the 1970s and 1980s were instigated by Gibson after the company, and all of its 'intellectual property' including designs, was acquired by Norlin and because the MIJ knockoffs were having an apparent impact on Gibson's market share. This overlooks the fact that Gibson/Norlin, because of the Norlin deal, had lost many of its key people who left to start up Heritage guitars.

From Norlin's perspective, the 'reason' people weren't buying authentic Norlin/Gibsons was because of the presence of comparatively inexpensive knockoffs. I wasn't chasing Gibbies back then but it's not too hard to imagine that if any of us was considering a Les Paul back then, to conclude 'why should a buy a Gibson when all the talent had left (Gibson stuff is crap - some say it still is) and there are as good / better MIJ dupes around?'. To make the point, there are still late 70s/early 80s Greco 'lawsuit' Les Pauls that still sell for $100 or so less than a 2-year old Les Paul Studio ... don't know about the Greco acoustics but the solid bodies are very well-made guitars!

These days, the manufacturers probably write menacing letters to each other and let it go at that.
 

fronobulax

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I'm afraid I don't see what the problem is. Is there a design element in the instruments that Guild has claimed as intellectual property? Is there an element, or combination of elements that is only found on Guilds? Is Jay Turser using the word "Guild" in advertising or marketing descriptions? If not then this would be a case of imitation being sincere flattery but not grounds for a lawsuit or at least one that was winnable.

I'm not a lawyer but I am basing my comments on my experience backing up an expert witness in a software intellectual property case. In order to do something, two factors need to be present. First Guild has had to make some effort to identify and protect its intellectual property. Second Guild would have to prove that Turser obtained that intellectual property from Guild and used it without permission. Both of these would be difficult because there are only so many ways you can design and build a guitar.

Is there something about a prior relationship between Guild and Turnser that I am missing?
 

Jahn

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Heck this isn't my area of expertise either, but I thought that if something was out there, and the joe blow on the street is reminded of a Guild, that means Guild's mojo is being muddled with that Tak or Turser or whatever and Guild should be pissed.

How's that for legalese? 8)
 

capnjuan

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Hi Fronobulax: If I understand correctly, Jahn's post was pointing out that Turser had adopted a inlay config similar to, if not exactly like, that found on Guilds ... leaving aside for the moment where Guild got the idea.

There's a discussion going on in another thread here about FMI's apparent reluctance to exploit (and protect?) Guild's reputation as a maker of fine archtop and electric guitars. In that thread, there's a remark to effect that whoever was leading the Guild division at FMI is no longer there.

FMI's apparent unwillingness, as far as anyone knows, to crank out a cease and desist-style letter to Turser is at least consistent with FMI's disinterest, for whatever reasons, in protecting and enhancing the Guild Mojo including Guild's inlay config ... wherever it came from.

BTW: when I left NoVa in 1993, the traffic in Fairfax County had reached the excruciating point. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: Enjoying life are ya out there on 7 / 123 / 29 / 50 / 236? Reading the paper as you bump along on the Beltway?

Regards, cj
 

fronobulax

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Jahn said:
Heck this isn't my area of expertise either, but I thought that if something was out there, and the joe blow on the street is reminded of a Guild, that means Guild's mojo is being muddled with that Tak or Turser or whatever and Guild should be pissed.

How's that for legalese? 8)

I'm reminded of the comment "Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right". I think that applies here.

I am reminded of my own indignation when I accused a local guitar dealer of wrongdoing because he referred to a non-Gibson bass as "EB-0" style. When push came to shove he wasn't doing anything illegal, just something I thought was wrong.

I'm also reminded of all the times I have walked up to a Nissan or Toyota in the parking lot because it looked like my Honda...
 

fronobulax

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capnjuan said:
FMI's apparent unwillingness, as far as anyone knows, to crank out a cease and desist-style letter to Turser is at least consistent with FMI's disinterest, for whatever reasons, in protecting and enhancing the Guild Mojo including Guild's inlay config ... wherever it came from.

I guess my point is that FMI might not have any legal grounds to issue such a letter. They could play the heavy and do so but they could end up with egg on their face if Guild or FMI had not taken steps to identify and protect FMI's intellectual property. So, by itself, and IMO, FMI's unwillingness does not have to be related to their plans, or their lack thereof, for the Guild brand. It could be that they just aren't ready to start a fight they are not certain to win.

capnjuan said:
BTW: when I left NoVa in 1993, the traffic in Fairfax County had reached the excruciating point. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: Enjoying life are ya out there on 7 / 123 / 29 / 50 / 236? Reading the paper as you bump along on the Beltway?

Regards, cj

Been here since 1978. Currently have the sweetest commute I have ever had in my life. 4 miles one way. One block each on 236, 50 and 29 and everything else is residental.
 

capnjuan

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fronobulax said:
I guess my point is that FMI might not have any legal grounds to issue such a letter.

Especially if they can't show the 'design' is theirs in the first place via copyright or trademark. It wasn't ever clear that Norlin / Gibson's 'moustache' or 'open book' headstock shape enjoyed that protection but that didn't stop them from chasing people through the courts.

One important distinction is that Greco didn't just copy the headstock (or inlay geometry); they outright 'forged' the Les Paul; 'copied' hardly describes the conduct. For example: 1981 'Super Real' Greco:
greco.jpg



In any event, the threat that Norlin might prevail was sufficient to get Greco and others to adjust the layout of their instruments.


Been here since 1978 ... have the sweetest commute I have ever had in my life ...

Then it's fair to say that the rest of Fairfax County traffic is best characterized as a 'Jam Session'?

Regards,

cj
 
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