West R Lee
Venerated Member
Doctor Hatt, you're the teacher we hear about on the news each night, aren't you? :twisted: :lol:
West
West
The Highest Priced Dealers
- Thread starter Darryl Hattenhauer
- Start date
Darryl Hattenhauer
Venerated Member
Eh? What teacher is that? The handsome guy in Phoenix who pulls a trailer behind his car to put all the chicks in?
West R Lee
Venerated Member
:lol: Ya that one! Say, did they ever catch the phantom Phoenix serial killer?
West
West
Darryl Hattenhauer
Venerated Member
Yes, and man what a bunch of creeps. About half were done by a duo, and the other half by a loner. Typical /><~`^*{']! situation where the system paroled violent /><~`^*{']! criminals who went back to victimizing people, in this case mostly the working poor catching a bus after working for minimum wage to support a single-parent family. One was a somewhat mentally handicapped teenager.
guildzilla
Senior Member
It's fun and interesting for me to compare and discuss guitar store and G-Base dealer prices with those on e-Bay. But I have no resentment (just a lot of curiosity) about dealers trying to stick to their guns and wait for the right buyer.
The only thing that makes me wonder is how a dealer can sit on an inventory of 100-200 guitars without selling very many very often. That's a lot of overhead.
Many or most of us are bargain hunters here on LTG. That's okay, too.
This is too simplistic, perhaps, but I view e-Bay as a wholesale market. Private shops, dealers and stores represent the retail side.
I recently sold my 1970 Gibson EB-0 bass on e-Bay. It lasted only four hours on the auction block before Chicago Music Exchange grabbed it for the $795 BIN price (without a case). I had not intentionally underpriced that bass. I considered the BIN price to be top dollar on e-Bay.
But when it shows up at CME on G-Base, obviously, there will be a markup.
Anyhow, lots of good points made on this thread.
The only thing that makes me wonder is how a dealer can sit on an inventory of 100-200 guitars without selling very many very often. That's a lot of overhead.
Many or most of us are bargain hunters here on LTG. That's okay, too.
This is too simplistic, perhaps, but I view e-Bay as a wholesale market. Private shops, dealers and stores represent the retail side.
I recently sold my 1970 Gibson EB-0 bass on e-Bay. It lasted only four hours on the auction block before Chicago Music Exchange grabbed it for the $795 BIN price (without a case). I had not intentionally underpriced that bass. I considered the BIN price to be top dollar on e-Bay.
But when it shows up at CME on G-Base, obviously, there will be a markup.
Anyhow, lots of good points made on this thread.
Darryl Hattenhauer
Venerated Member
GZ,
Let us know what price he puts on it.
Let us know what price he puts on it.
teleharmonium
Member
Some of the Gbase dealers, like "Gary's", don't have retail stores, he keeps his guitars at his house. He has expenses for advertising and guitar shows, but I'll wager a guess he can afford to sit on all of his guitars if he needed to.
Mike's Music pays the rent on a small volume of higher dollar pieces. His two stores are in moderate to low rent neighborhoods and he doesn't pay his employees much. Most of the stock on regular display in the stores has been there for a while, and the bulk of it is priced over market value. A good percentage of it is currently broken and/or has non original parts or mods and even with those issues, is still over market value for clean pieces. Some of his prices almost seem like practical jokes. He's had this one thing for at least 5 years, it's a box with a small tube amp and speaker that I'm fairly certain was originally packaged with an Italian electronic organ that was imported to England. The original logo is gone, there's just a bare rectangle down to the wood where it was literally cut off the grille cloth, but it has the same kind of blue/grey covering as 60s Selmer amps from England did (which was also used by several other makers). The amp chassis is definitely English, is low wattage, has no visible controls - just an output jack (the controls presumably were on the organ, which was also hard wired to the amp input), and it has a small ish speaker, probably a Goodmans. There is no indication of maker whatsover, the exterior is in only fair condition, and the amp needs an overhaul. As someone quite familiar with oddball 60s British amps, I would estimate this piece, of awkward size, unknown make, and unknown but almost certainly non guitar application, to be worth maybe $250 as a generous estimate. I have bought cooler vintage oddball amps on ebay from England for under $100 before shipping, but whatever. This piece at Mike's, however, is tagged as a Selmer and priced at $1500 ! That's more than all but the few most desirable Selmer guitar amps would typically fetch in clean examples, more than I paid for any of the 6 I own including a pretty clean Zodiac 30 with original cone alnico Celestions.
These guys know that stuff listed on Gbase will probably be seen by a lot of folks and stay on there for a while, so they overprice there in hopes of upping the perceived going rate for those doing quick web searches for stuff that is not that common. Whatever the going rate is, is just a kind of group faith that that's what others are paying or have paid, along with the perception of how cool and how desirable something is, supply and demand are both dealt with through human estimation in this market and as such they can be manipulated. It's not like the stock market or real estate where everybody can basically see what something sells for.
They sell some pieces at the speculatively high prices - some people don't care about the price, or aren't patient enough to shop around, and other pieces sell for less, or bring in traffic and interest that benefits them later.
Mike's Music pays the rent on a small volume of higher dollar pieces. His two stores are in moderate to low rent neighborhoods and he doesn't pay his employees much. Most of the stock on regular display in the stores has been there for a while, and the bulk of it is priced over market value. A good percentage of it is currently broken and/or has non original parts or mods and even with those issues, is still over market value for clean pieces. Some of his prices almost seem like practical jokes. He's had this one thing for at least 5 years, it's a box with a small tube amp and speaker that I'm fairly certain was originally packaged with an Italian electronic organ that was imported to England. The original logo is gone, there's just a bare rectangle down to the wood where it was literally cut off the grille cloth, but it has the same kind of blue/grey covering as 60s Selmer amps from England did (which was also used by several other makers). The amp chassis is definitely English, is low wattage, has no visible controls - just an output jack (the controls presumably were on the organ, which was also hard wired to the amp input), and it has a small ish speaker, probably a Goodmans. There is no indication of maker whatsover, the exterior is in only fair condition, and the amp needs an overhaul. As someone quite familiar with oddball 60s British amps, I would estimate this piece, of awkward size, unknown make, and unknown but almost certainly non guitar application, to be worth maybe $250 as a generous estimate. I have bought cooler vintage oddball amps on ebay from England for under $100 before shipping, but whatever. This piece at Mike's, however, is tagged as a Selmer and priced at $1500 ! That's more than all but the few most desirable Selmer guitar amps would typically fetch in clean examples, more than I paid for any of the 6 I own including a pretty clean Zodiac 30 with original cone alnico Celestions.
These guys know that stuff listed on Gbase will probably be seen by a lot of folks and stay on there for a while, so they overprice there in hopes of upping the perceived going rate for those doing quick web searches for stuff that is not that common. Whatever the going rate is, is just a kind of group faith that that's what others are paying or have paid, along with the perception of how cool and how desirable something is, supply and demand are both dealt with through human estimation in this market and as such they can be manipulated. It's not like the stock market or real estate where everybody can basically see what something sells for.
They sell some pieces at the speculatively high prices - some people don't care about the price, or aren't patient enough to shop around, and other pieces sell for less, or bring in traffic and interest that benefits them later.
dklsplace
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2001
- Messages
- 3,325
- Reaction score
- 0
guildzilla said:
I think many can stick it out on higher priced instruments because they make a much larger percent of their income on the Washburns & Takamines on the acoustic side, & strats & teles on the electric. Doesn't take much of a salesman to sell a kid an electric guitar that his hero plays, or for parents looking for the best deal on the beginner packs.
Darryl Hattenhauer
Venerated Member
Kudos to Gruhn
I'm impressed that Gruhn admits that sometimes even he can't tell Indian from Braz. Here's a current description from his site:
AM6233 Guild D-50 (More photos...) , 1963, EXC, Hoboken label, replacement top dated on underside 1978 (expert professional work), Brazilian rosewood sides, back looks very much like Indian rosewood but we are not certain of the exact type, OHC......$1500
The first pic here is the Gruhner. The next three were sold by other honest dealers who could have sold these as Braz. I think the second is Braz, and I wish I'd bought it. I think the third and fourth are Indian, and I did buy them. But any of them could be either. Be brave like George and take a guess. I don't think you could be proven wrong (or right).
http://groups.msn.com/brazind/shoebox.msnw
All of this shows that sometimes it's hard to tell with Guilds. It seems to me that compared to Martin etc., from about 1960-1975 Guild often used some of the plainest Braz yet some of the most figured Indian.
I'm impressed that Gruhn admits that sometimes even he can't tell Indian from Braz. Here's a current description from his site:
AM6233 Guild D-50 (More photos...) , 1963, EXC, Hoboken label, replacement top dated on underside 1978 (expert professional work), Brazilian rosewood sides, back looks very much like Indian rosewood but we are not certain of the exact type, OHC......$1500
The first pic here is the Gruhner. The next three were sold by other honest dealers who could have sold these as Braz. I think the second is Braz, and I wish I'd bought it. I think the third and fourth are Indian, and I did buy them. But any of them could be either. Be brave like George and take a guess. I don't think you could be proven wrong (or right).
http://groups.msn.com/brazind/shoebox.msnw
All of this shows that sometimes it's hard to tell with Guilds. It seems to me that compared to Martin etc., from about 1960-1975 Guild often used some of the plainest Braz yet some of the most figured Indian.