Graham
Venerated Member
West R Lee said:
Thank you, I'm still kicking myself, a bit, for that one. Although it does have a good home.
The Highest Priced Dealers
- Thread starter Darryl Hattenhauer
- Start date
Thank you, I'm still kicking myself, a bit, for that one. Although it does have a good home.
West R Lee
Venerated Member
Ah, you owed me anyway Graham for putting you onto the DV52 !
Na, you don't owe me a thing except for you to play the h--l out of it!
West
!Na, you don't owe me a thing except for you to play the h--l out of it!
West
Graham
Venerated Member
West R Lee said:Ah, you owed me anyway Graham for putting you onto the DV52
Na, you don't owe me a thing except for you to play the h--l out of it!
West
Yeah, I guess we're even.
ave del noche
Member
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2006
- Messages
- 115
- Reaction score
- 0
There certainly seem to be a number of dealers that have very high prices, and I too have wondered how they can do it. I think Guildmark hit some of the reasons--namely buyer ignorance on going rates elsewhere. It is conceivable that if completed ebay auctions were searchable for more than a few weeks after closing it might change some of that. It could also just fuel sellers' hopes and lead to higher asking prices.
Another thing to consider is that many of these dealers aren't really there to service players. Gary's (whose prices do seem to be amongst the most ambitious) is a great example of a dealer that seems geared more towards investors than players. The reality is that a growing portion of the vintage market (maybe even the majority at this point) aren't buying these things to use them. So, a market developed to service those clients.
I also don't buy the bs about "value" and "service" that some dealers reference to justify the prices. I've been hurried off the phone or given just as terse/incomplete/uneducated an answer from many of the high-priced dealers as with a smaller shop. Actually, I think the smaller and less-known ones tend to give much better service. Also, since the greatest resource ever (that internet thing will be huge one day) is readily available to anyone the need for this "expertise" is greatly lessened.
All that said...I still like Mandolin Bros, and I recently got a good deal from them. They had the guitar for over 6 months and so let it go for a little less. We always have the option of not paying the high prices. The only problem is when misinformation creates an artificially high market overall. Not much you can do about that, however.
Another thing to consider is that many of these dealers aren't really there to service players. Gary's (whose prices do seem to be amongst the most ambitious) is a great example of a dealer that seems geared more towards investors than players. The reality is that a growing portion of the vintage market (maybe even the majority at this point) aren't buying these things to use them. So, a market developed to service those clients.
I also don't buy the bs about "value" and "service" that some dealers reference to justify the prices. I've been hurried off the phone or given just as terse/incomplete/uneducated an answer from many of the high-priced dealers as with a smaller shop. Actually, I think the smaller and less-known ones tend to give much better service. Also, since the greatest resource ever (that internet thing will be huge one day) is readily available to anyone the need for this "expertise" is greatly lessened.
All that said...I still like Mandolin Bros, and I recently got a good deal from them. They had the guitar for over 6 months and so let it go for a little less. We always have the option of not paying the high prices. The only problem is when misinformation creates an artificially high market overall. Not much you can do about that, however.
Bing k
Senior Member
Graham said:
Vintage gear prices are completely market orientated influenced by supply and the ability of a seller to wait for the gear to appreciate to his asking price. The exception is when deep pockets and gas are combined.
If the advertisement cost and "risk" do not eat up the difference between what the money would make in the market and what the gear eventually sells for then the seller is ahead to hold at his price for the piece.
If a seller pays current market value (doesn't get it for a song at a garage sale) for a piece of vintage gear then it's an investment such as buying stock. If you buy stock on the exchange you wait for it to appreciate to a selling price thats makes you money. Quite often the selling price is determined going in.
The same is often done with vintage gear. Buy it, appreciate it, sell it. If it sells for the asking price before the current value appreciates to that price,(The deep pockets scenario) that's icing on the cake. It may also accelerate appreciation on similar pieces.
New mass produced gear is a whole different ball game. Pricing is dictated buy 2 factors; current street value(which can vary dramatically product to product) and "map" guidelines. The 2 are rarely the same.
We handle little vintage gear here and use our G-base listings mostly for market exposure of the business in current production product lines.
Darryl Hattenhauer
Venerated Member
Yes, Mando Bros seems like a place that's got maximum expertise and service. So if you add that to their overhead, I think they are justified. And they don't get steamed if you offer them less than they can take. I'm glad to hear they cut the price for you. And you can't always blame them when they can't lower a price because it can be a consignment with somebody who won't take less. But I'd prefer to buy from them and others on the list only for rarities.
In the last decade, I haven't bought a guitar from anyplace except ebay and New Hope (the latter being the most knowledgeable, connected to Guild buyers the world over, and small).
In the last decade, I haven't bought a guitar from anyplace except ebay and New Hope (the latter being the most knowledgeable, connected to Guild buyers the world over, and small).
Darryl Hattenhauer
Venerated Member
Bing,
So a place like Gary's probably has a different strategy, not turnover and volume, but waiting for the market to catch up to his price? I can understand that. Like you say, it's like holding stock long term. He might actually be safer in the long run. And he probably doesn't have to put as much labor into his business.
So a place like Gary's probably has a different strategy, not turnover and volume, but waiting for the market to catch up to his price? I can understand that. Like you say, it's like holding stock long term. He might actually be safer in the long run. And he probably doesn't have to put as much labor into his business.
gilligan
Member
Hello All,
This thread is funny to me in several ways (ha-ha funny, not peculiar funny). The next guitar on my wish list is a 70’s D25 and I also spotted the one at Jim’s some time ago and noticed that it was considerably higher in price than guys like us think/know it should be. Although…
At the Philly guitar show a few months ago I picked every D25 I could find, about 4 or 5 of them. They were all in the $650-$799 range, and even if I’d had the money with me and were ready to buy, I wouldn’t have bought any of them. They were in what I would consider to be poor condition—bridges shaved to nothing; no saddle left; cracks here and there; up-here-and-down-there tops that looked like the top of a 30y.o. that wasn’t cared for; etc. I don’t think I even got to the point of wanting to sit down and strum any of them. And these were dealers.
My luthier is well respected in the area and is a Guild man—he’s got several vintage Guild acoustics of his own. When I was in there before the holidays he was working on an early 70’s D25, flat-backed with mahogany top. It was pristine. Looked like he just pulled it out of the box from…Hoboken or Westerly?…35 years ago. I asked what the owner would get for it if it were for sale, suggesting maybe $1100 or so. He emphatically said at least that much.
I see the D25’s on ebay all the time and some of them look to be exactly what I’d like to have—a guitar that has been well played but well maintained and cared for. But descriptions and photos don’t show all the directions a neck can bend, etc. and I don’t want to go out on a limb to take a chance with the guy who says he’s the original owner and has 100% pos. feedback on 2 transactions.
If I were ready to buy today, I feel there would be skinnier than slim pickin’s out there for quality guitars. I would take the 2+ hour drive to try out the one at Jim’s and hope to talk him down using the points that have been discussed in this thread. But, assuming that the guitar is in near-mint condition and doesn’t need any immediate attention like a bridge re-glue or fret-job, I would probably take the plunge anyway.
Responses to my thoughts--pos or neg--are greatly appreciated.
gilligan
This thread is funny to me in several ways (ha-ha funny, not peculiar funny). The next guitar on my wish list is a 70’s D25 and I also spotted the one at Jim’s some time ago and noticed that it was considerably higher in price than guys like us think/know it should be. Although…
At the Philly guitar show a few months ago I picked every D25 I could find, about 4 or 5 of them. They were all in the $650-$799 range, and even if I’d had the money with me and were ready to buy, I wouldn’t have bought any of them. They were in what I would consider to be poor condition—bridges shaved to nothing; no saddle left; cracks here and there; up-here-and-down-there tops that looked like the top of a 30y.o. that wasn’t cared for; etc. I don’t think I even got to the point of wanting to sit down and strum any of them. And these were dealers.
My luthier is well respected in the area and is a Guild man—he’s got several vintage Guild acoustics of his own. When I was in there before the holidays he was working on an early 70’s D25, flat-backed with mahogany top. It was pristine. Looked like he just pulled it out of the box from…Hoboken or Westerly?…35 years ago. I asked what the owner would get for it if it were for sale, suggesting maybe $1100 or so. He emphatically said at least that much.
I see the D25’s on ebay all the time and some of them look to be exactly what I’d like to have—a guitar that has been well played but well maintained and cared for. But descriptions and photos don’t show all the directions a neck can bend, etc. and I don’t want to go out on a limb to take a chance with the guy who says he’s the original owner and has 100% pos. feedback on 2 transactions.
If I were ready to buy today, I feel there would be skinnier than slim pickin’s out there for quality guitars. I would take the 2+ hour drive to try out the one at Jim’s and hope to talk him down using the points that have been discussed in this thread. But, assuming that the guitar is in near-mint condition and doesn’t need any immediate attention like a bridge re-glue or fret-job, I would probably take the plunge anyway.
Responses to my thoughts--pos or neg--are greatly appreciated.
gilligan
Graham
Venerated Member
Well said little buddy. I guess after seeing a bunch of D-25s go for around the $500 mark, that's where I think they should be priced.
I purchased a "72 for $512 and it's in now getting the bridge reglued, so add that to the total and we're at $600 or so. Other than that there are a couple of minor bumps, but I would expect that in a played instrument of 35 years. Anybody that buys a guitar from me is going to get some ding that I've put in it, no matter how careful I try to be.
If a mint D-25 is worth $1000 or more, then I guess I feel pretty good for the two I have, then again I'm not in this to do anything more than play them.
I spend a lot of time wondering why Guilds sell at considerably less than Gibsons and Martins when I think they are as well made, then I scoff at one that is priced in the same range as one of the others. :?
I purchased a "72 for $512 and it's in now getting the bridge reglued, so add that to the total and we're at $600 or so. Other than that there are a couple of minor bumps, but I would expect that in a played instrument of 35 years. Anybody that buys a guitar from me is going to get some ding that I've put in it, no matter how careful I try to be.
If a mint D-25 is worth $1000 or more, then I guess I feel pretty good for the two I have, then again I'm not in this to do anything more than play them.
I spend a lot of time wondering why Guilds sell at considerably less than Gibsons and Martins when I think they are as well made, then I scoff at one that is priced in the same range as one of the others. :?
Darryl Hattenhauer
Venerated Member
:lol:
Yep. I'd rather pay a reasonable amount more than hassle with repairs. And haggling might be a good idea. Any ideas about how often a dealer will come down?
BTW, who made better music, Ginger or Mary Ann?
West R Lee
Venerated Member
http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDe ... em=1509018
Gilligan, I've had my eye on this one for quite some time. Showed it to Graham here a while back. If I were going to buy a D25 right now, I'd check this seller out both by calling Gbase, and by calling the seller. I'd see what he has listed and at what prices. If it felt good, I'd try to negotiate and go for it.
BTW, the old 70's flat backs are probably more sought after than the arch backs, and more rare. If your repair guy has a "mint" flat back, it might be "worth" $1100 in my very humble opinion. Keep in mind that "worth" is a very subjective word.
And Darryl, my money would be on Mary Ann! :twisted:
West
Gilligan, I've had my eye on this one for quite some time. Showed it to Graham here a while back. If I were going to buy a D25 right now, I'd check this seller out both by calling Gbase, and by calling the seller. I'd see what he has listed and at what prices. If it felt good, I'd try to negotiate and go for it.
BTW, the old 70's flat backs are probably more sought after than the arch backs, and more rare. If your repair guy has a "mint" flat back, it might be "worth" $1100 in my very humble opinion. Keep in mind that "worth" is a very subjective word.
And Darryl, my money would be on Mary Ann! :twisted:
West
gilligan
Member
You mentioned the other brands--that reminds me...
if I had the option of spending $1100 for a possibly over-priced near-mint condition 70's D25, or spending $1500 (+/-) for a new Taylor or Martin, I'd still get the Guild and would still feel like I got the better guitar.
gilligan
if I had the option of spending $1100 for a possibly over-priced near-mint condition 70's D25, or spending $1500 (+/-) for a new Taylor or Martin, I'd still get the Guild and would still feel like I got the better guitar.
gilligan
West R Lee
Venerated Member
No arguement here!Good luck,
West
Graham
Venerated Member
Darryl Hattenhauer said:
Mary Ann struck a chord with me
gilligan
Member
Darryl--
The professor could make a guitar out of half a coconut shell and a couple of banana peel fibers...and an amp out of that transistor radio.
but you're forgetting one of the girls--they didn't call her Mrs. Howl for nothing!
gilligan
The professor could make a guitar out of half a coconut shell and a couple of banana peel fibers...and an amp out of that transistor radio.
but you're forgetting one of the girls--they didn't call her Mrs. Howl for nothing!
gilligan
gilligan
Member
Wes,
Thanks for pointing that one out to me, but let me send this idea up the flagpole and see who salutes it...
The model you're referring to (which looks like it is in absolutely perfect condition, BTW) is about 10 years old. For a little bit higher price range, I hope to find one that is about 30 years old (in more of a used condition, of course).
How much more is older (aged) tonewood worth?
gilligan
Thanks for pointing that one out to me, but let me send this idea up the flagpole and see who salutes it...
The model you're referring to (which looks like it is in absolutely perfect condition, BTW) is about 10 years old. For a little bit higher price range, I hope to find one that is about 30 years old (in more of a used condition, of course).
How much more is older (aged) tonewood worth?
gilligan
West R Lee
Venerated Member
:lol: :lol: :lol: Gil, you cracked a funny! You're as deranged as the rest of us. :wink:
BTW, the reasons I'm so crazy about that particular D25 are many, not the least of which is that it's as new a D25 you'll find that is a true pre-Fender Westerly. I think the natural top is unique, to me at least, for a D25, and it appears to be in great condition.
Now ask me if I'd rather have that D25 at $750, or a $1500 Martin or Taylor? No contest.
West
BTW, the reasons I'm so crazy about that particular D25 are many, not the least of which is that it's as new a D25 you'll find that is a true pre-Fender Westerly. I think the natural top is unique, to me at least, for a D25, and it appears to be in great condition.
Now ask me if I'd rather have that D25 at $750, or a $1500 Martin or Taylor? No contest.
West
West R Lee
Venerated Member
And BTW again, I had a man call me tonight that's been playing a Taylor for years. He asked if I'd be interested in selling any of my Guilds.
That speaks for itself, don't ya think.
West
That speaks for itself, don't ya think.
West
Darryl Hattenhauer
Venerated Member
:lol:
I'll bet Ginger was all too happy to give up her coconuts to get a banana.