unstable "Newark St. Collection" hardshell case?

[ranbush]

I bought a 2017 Starfire in 2019 and I liked it a lot, so when I saw a 2000 Starfire at the same local guitar shop, I bought it. I was told that the 2000 SF was probably one of the last guitars to come from the Westerly factory.

I don't usually take these guitars out of the house, but last week I put the 2017 into its hardshell case to go to a jam, and I noticed that the hardshell case is very unstable when it is set on the floor. It feels like it will fall over. It appears to me that the factory thought that the case latches and the case "buttons" were close enough in height that they didn't need to use another "button" on the treble side of the case. But they used four buttons on the bottom of the case?

So my questions to the Wise Ones are:

#1 Both the cases for the 2017 SF and the 2000 SF are labeled "Newark St. Collection" - did they use the same badge on cases for guitars that were built in Westerly and also the guitars built in Korea, 17 years later?

#2 Does everyone just stand the case up on its butt end with the four buttons, or just live with the unstable feeling when placing the case on its treble side?

TIA.

 

[GAD]

2000-era Guilds did not come in Newark St. branded cases. Seems to me like someone replaced the original case with a much cheaper modern one.

I would never stand a guitar up on end even in the case. When "vertical" they lean against a wall, usually with other cases next to it for support.

 

[fronobulax]

Yeah. The case with the 2000 guitar cannot be original since the Newark Street line didn't even exist for at least a decade.

FWIW my Guild Starfire bass HSC from the 1970's and my Newark Street Starfire bass case are equally stable in the only two orientations I use - flat and vertical, with the handle on the top.

I don't stand any instruments on the "butt end" of the case because that seems more unstable than any other position with the instruments and cases I have. I expect the buttons assist the case when stored in a rack.

I have seen cello cases that were designed to stand on the butt end but the first thing you notice is that the bottom of the case is flat and does not follow the contours of the lower bout. The second thing you notice is that street prices for HSCs for cellos are over $250.

 

[ranbush]

Thanks, Wise Ones. Something must've happened to the original HSC for the '00 SF and some previous owner replaced it with a Newark St HSC. I can live with that.

Seems odd that the Newark St cases have four buttons on the bottom. Maybe I'll take two off the bottom and mount them on the side.

8P

 

[fronobulax]

You may think it odd but all of the Guild cases (and one non-Guild case) in this house have the four buttons. The exception is a MK IV case. So Guild was doing it in the 70's, 80's and 201x's as was at least one other case manufacturer in the 201x.

I first encountered hardshell cases in the 70's and I cannot recall ever seeing anyone trying to stand a case on its butt end with no other support. I have seen numerous times when the case was leaning on something else with the butt end down but you may be the first person I have encountered who expected the buttons to stabilize a butt standing case.

I have found the vertical position stable enough but if I can, I also place the case so that it is unlikely to flop over. And, if I can, my preferred position is to have the case flat on the floor where something falling on it is far more likely than it falling over.

 

[GAD]

You may think it odd but all of the Guild cases (and one non-Guild case) in this house have the four buttons. The exception is a MK IV case. So Guild was doing it in the 70's, 80's and 201x's as was at least one other case manufacturer in the 201x.

I first encountered hardshell cases in the 70's and I cannot recall ever seeing anyone trying to stand a case on its butt end with no other support. I have seen numerous times when the case was leaning on something else with the butt end down but you may be the first person I have encountered who expected the buttons to stabilize a butt standing case.

I have found the vertical position stable enough but if I can, I also place the case so that it is unlikely to flop over. And, if I can, my preferred position is to have the case flat on the floor where something falling on it is far more likely than it falling over.

While I agree with you as I wrote above, it would seem to me that they put four buttons on the end of the case specifically so that it would stand up that way.

Actually, now that I think about it, I have used them to stand the cases up vertically! My acoustic cases used to be leaning up against the wall and there is a baseboard heater on the bottom of that wall. By standing the cases up the rising heat doesn't hit the necks (I have a reflector on the floor so the heat goes mostly straight up). By standing the cases vertically they were mostly removed from getting direct heat from the baseboard and since I have so many, they would be friction fit together so that they wouldn't topple.

 

[fronobulax]

While I agree with you as I wrote above, it would seem to me that they put four buttons on the end of the case specifically so that it would stand up that way.

It could be as simple as blindly following tradition. It could be one of those things that seemed like a good idea at the time but, unlike the guitar kickstand, has not been abandoned. It could also be we are misunderstanding the intent. For the cases I just checked, when I lean them in a butt down position, two of the buttons do engage and appear to help keeping the butt from slipping. A four button design is symmetric and removes a constraint about which side of the case is actually being supported by whatever it is leaning on.

But if the intent was to rest on the butt, unsupported, it does seem like a poor design. If there were a demand for butt resting shaped cases for guitar I expect we would see something like this (note the flat bottom):

I also note that the market for cases that excel in protection seems to be rectangular cases that are either thick enough to stand alone on the butt end or built in such as way as t discourage that.

 

[GAD]

It could be as simple as blindly following tradition. It could be one of those things that seemed like a good idea at the time but, unlike the guitar kickstand, has not been abandoned. It could also be we are misunderstanding the intent. For the cases I just checked, when I lean them in a butt down position, two of the buttons do engage and appear to help keeping the butt from slipping. A four button design is symmetric and removes a constraint about which side of the case is actually being supported by whatever it is leaning on.

But if the intent was to rest on the butt, unsupported, it does seem like a poor design. If there were a demand for butt resting shaped cases for guitar I expect we would see something like this (note the flat bottom):

I also note that the market for cases that excel in protection seems to be rectangular cases that are either thick enough to stand alone on the butt end or built in such as way as t discourage that.

I think when it comes to flight cases a rectangular shape means that a) more guitars fit in the same case and b) they pack and stack easier.

 

[Rambozo96]

I’m probably beating a dead horse here but some cases don’t fit some guitars 100% like they should so I don’t advise standing a case upright. I seen a Gibson Victory bass have its neck snapped when it was in its case sitting upright and was knocked over.

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

I bought a 2017 Starfire in 2019 and I liked it a lot, so when I saw a 2000 Starfire at the same local guitar shop, I bought it. I was told that the 2000 SF was probably one of the last guitars to come from the Westerly factory.

I don't usually take these guitars out of the house, but last week I put the 2017 into its hardshell case to go to a jam, and I noticed that the hardshell case is very unstable when it is set on the floor. It feels like it will fall over. It appears to me that the factory thought that the case latches and the case "buttons" were close enough in height that they didn't need to use another "button" on the treble side of the case. But they used four buttons on the bottom of the case?

So my questions to the Wise Ones are:

#1 Both the cases for the 2017 SF and the 2000 SF are labeled "Newark St. Collection" - did they use the same badge on cases for guitars that were built in Westerly and also the guitars built in Korea, 17 years later?

#2 Does everyone just stand the case up on its butt end with the four buttons, or just live with the unstable feeling when placing the case on its treble side?

TIA.

So yes, if it’s says Newark Street on the case then it was made sometime between 2014-2018 or so and the 2000 Starfire you bought did not come with its original and more “sturdy” aka expensive Canadian built TKL case. The Newark Street and current cases are built in China and they have gone through a few changes since Guild was bought by Cordoba, who has been experimenting with cost effective and higher quality parts and accessories since. I have a few cases and the images below may bring some clarification to this, each of which is labeled by year.

My 2016 Starfire case (Newark Street branded with rounded aluminum badge) is the cheapest of the bunch, with a plastic handle, flat feet with an overly large rounded center pin which should be flat and instead destabilizes the case when on its treble side, and a thinner less stable surface area for the four feet at the base of the case. This case even has problems staying open because the cloth belt that keeps the lid from falling backwards is actually a little too short, and it shuts very easily on uneven surfaces. Pretty annoying.

Cordoba took note of this (the original lot of cases was probably a Fender purchase that transferred over in the acquisition) and the new cases are much better. They are identifiable by the square black Guild “Shield” logos, the comfortable soft leather handles, non-rounded pins and better leveled feet on the treble side, wider four feet on the base of the case, more accurate lid strap length, and overall better padded interior and slightly wider (1/4”) dimension, probably for the guitars with Guildsby’s and better protection of the bridges in general.

I will say, there is still a slight variation in the treble side feet you may get, since my 2018 has flat feet and my 2020 feet are rounded, but I have seen it go both ways. They are both far more stable then the previous lot but I’d assume that the flat feet are better overall. I’m not sure what the 2021 cases have on them, but at this point they are probably uniform since they have made improvements over the years. I’d probably inquire when purchasing from them directly, but the new cases are far superior and worth the money IMO.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

So yes, if it’s says Newark Street on the case then it was made sometime between 2014-2018 or so and the 2000 Starfire you bought did not come with its original and more “sturdy” aka expensive Canadian built TKL case. The Newark Street and current cases are built in China and they have gone through a few changes since Guild was bought by Cordoba, who has been experimenting with cost effective and higher quality parts and accessories since. I have a few cases and the images below may bring some clarification to this, each of which is labeled by year.

My 2016 Starfire case (Newark Street branded with rounded aluminum badge) is the cheapest of the bunch, with a plastic handle, flat feet with an overly large rounded pin that negates the fact that is should be flat and destabilizes the case when on its treble side, and a thinner less stable surface area for the four feet at the base of the case. This case even has problems staying open because the cloth belt that keeps the lid from falling backwards is actually a little too short, and it shuts very easily on uneven surfaces. Pretty annoying.

Cordoba took note of this (the original lot of cases was probably a Fender purchase that transferred over in the acquisition) and the new cases are much better. They are identifiable by the square black Guild “Shield” logos, the comfortable soft leather handles, non-rounded pins and better leveled feet on the treble side, wider four feet on the base of the case, more accurate lid strap length, and overall better padded interior and slightly wider (1/4”) dimension, probably for the guitars with Guildsby’s and better protection of the bridges in general.

I will say, there is still a slight variation inthe treble side feet you may get, since my 2018 has flat feet and my 2020 feet are rounded, but I have see it go both ways. They are both far more stable then the previous lot but I’d assume that the flat feet are better overall. I’m not sure what the 2021 cases have on them, but at this point they are probably uniform since they have made improvements over the years. I’d probably inquire when purchasing from them directly, but the new cases are far superior and worth the money IMO.

Hope this helps.

Note, these are all Starfire cases! I didn’t put a measuring tape up against any of them, but the guitar picks between the feet should give you reference, and the added width and quality of the new vs old case is noticeable either way.