Reset time cost vs value

[adorshki]

Car restoration is a popular pastime for a lot of people. I've never understood it, except for the fun of doing it, and of course, if you can sell it for more than you put in it.. Older cars are not as good as newer cars, so from a practical perspective, there is no reason to fix them up.

Unless you love rear wheel drive, which offers superior handling.
There's a reason F1 cars and high-performance luxury brands (BMW, Mercedes. Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette, Mustang) are RWD.

Not to mention windshields angled so far back in the name of low drag that the dash is a permanent reflection interfering with one of the most important needs of safe driving: good visibility.

Then there's the flat-panel displays that will be obscured by sunglare at some point every day.

There's a whole lot of people that don't think newer cars are better.

What happens when some marketing whiz manages to convince the public carbon fiber guitars and stratabond necks are both more reliable and environmentally friendly than those prone-to-failure old all-wood jalopies, and best of all they all sound exactly the same too?

We'll see a whole malaise era of guitars.

 

[Heath]

I just got a “new to me” Jeep and was super excited that it had crank window handles. Two less motors to have replace later

 

[Br1ck]

I have an ongoing experience with an old car, a 74 MG Midget. This is about the most absurd vehicle you could own. It's motor goes back to the late 30's, so it was outdated when it was new. If my MG had not had a more modern 5 speed fitted, it would have topped out at about 60mph. Still, a freeway is an adventure. I remember the first time I pulled up to a Miata. Firstly, I could see under it from behind. The Miata was huge. You have to thrash it to keep up with traffic. It may be near impossible to get a speeding ticket. But get this out in a twisty mountain road, like we have in the Santa Cruz mountains, and there is not a more fun car to drive. It is so close to the ground it feels like you are flying. You are not. The skinny tires see to that. Get on the gas on an uphill straight and the little motor just sounds perfect. With the top down, you really don't drive it any other way, people talk to you at lights. Everything on the car needs rebuilding, and it's so simple that you can. Given that I put maybe 5,000 miles on a new 72, it has a huge nostalgia factor. It's a hoot, and still an affordable toy, kind of like an old D 25. It's an adventure to get in and out of, but it was when I was 20 too.

It is just another old thing I'm attracted to, be it my house, guitars, furniture, tools, you name it, if it's old I generally like it. I have two hand saws, a crosscut and a rip, that my wife's great uncle used to build houses with a hundred and ten years ago. They have decorative wood carvings on the handles. I can saw through a 2x4 in short order. No one uses them anymore, but like the old MG, it's very satisfying. No one in their right mind would restore an old wooden sailboat either.

 

[mike1100]

has me wondering what you'd need to buy one for to have the neck reset and still do OK.

I would say the answer is personal and depends upon a combination of motivations and goals.

No one in their right mind would restore an old wooden sailboat either.

The guy that would is an interesting bloke in my book.

When having major guitar work done, to me....."The waiting is the hardest part."

 

[5thumbs]

I have an ongoing experience with an old car, a 74 MG Midget. This is about the most absurd vehicle you could own. It's motor goes back to the late 30's, so it was outdated when it was new. If my MG had not had a more modern 5 speed fitted, it would have topped out at about 60mph. Still, a freeway is an adventure. I remember the first time I pulled up to a Miata. Firstly, I could see under it from behind. The Miata was huge. You have to thrash it to keep up with traffic. It may be near impossible to get a speeding ticket. But get this out in a twisty mountain road, like we have in the Santa Cruz mountains, and there is not a more fun car to drive. It is so close to the ground it feels like you are flying. You are not. The skinny tires see to that. Get on the gas on an uphill straight and the little motor just sounds perfect. With the top down, you really don't drive it any other way, people talk to you at lights. Everything on the car needs rebuilding, and it's so simple that you can. Given that I put maybe 5,000 miles on a new 72, it has a huge nostalgia factor. It's a hoot, and still an affordable toy, kind of like an old D 25. It's an adventure to get in and out of, but it was when I was 20 too.

Hah! Many years ago I had a '59 MGA. It was slightly faster than your midget - it might do 85 or 90 on a good day.

But what a complete ball to drive! A street legal go cart.

Keeping it running could sometimes be a challenge; I've never had another car that found so many unique ways of breaking down. But yeah, it's a good thing they were usually easy to fix.

Many great stories and memories.

 

[Brad Little]

Hah! Many years ago I had a '59 MGA. It was slightly faster than your midget - it might do 85 or 90 on a good day.

But what a complete ball to drive! A street legal go cart.

Keeping it running could sometimes be a challenge; I've never had another car that found so many unique ways of breaking down. But yeah, it's a good thing they were usually easy to fix.

Many great stories and memories.

It used to be said that a British sports car should come equipped with a British mechanic...

 

[valleyguy]

I was always told in the 60s that when you buy a British car you need to buy two, because one is always in the shop.

I certainly am one for keeping and revering old stuff, heck I just restored a 1968 D40, however, newer cars are safer, quieter and much more reliable, but certainly don't have the mojo of an old car. For a pure mode of transportation, I'll take a new car. For fun, style, and a hobby, yeah, I get it.

 

[Rambozo96]

It's hard for me to fathom, but D 18s from the mid to late 60s that have already had neck resets have been listed in the mid to high $3,000s recently. So realistically you could buy one in need of work for $2K and still have a market value guitar when all is said and done. The recent thread regarding a D 40 from that era has me wondering what you'd need to buy one for to have the neck reset and still do OK. The numbers don't add up if you pay more than $500 for one, unless you can find someone like the recent thread described.

Hard to fathom how many guitars will end up in closets because owners won't accept a realistic price to sell, and won't invest in fixing them. A real shame akin to the many Alverez and Yamahas of the 70s in the same boat.

I think eventually Guild like most previously under appreciated vintage stuff will eventually go up in value where people will consider having such a thing done. What blows my mind is that a Norlin era Gibson acoustic despite them having usually zero tone and no redeeming qualities (exceptions exist please no hate mail.) go for more than a 70’s Guild. Even though I haven’t met a 70’s Gibson acoustic I’d give a red cent for. If the time comes to have it done on my D-35 I’ll have it done, I am well aware there is a standing chance I’ll never see that money again but realistically guitars aren’t a great investment unless you really knew the market anyway. But that being said I played that D-35 so much since I got it that playing other acoustics take a little time for me to adjust to.

 

[RBSinTo]

Regardless the subject matter, this thread is, I believe about the difference between what one does for money, and what one does for love.
RBSinTo

 

[adorshki]

I was always told in the 60s that when you buy a British car you need to buy two, because one is always in the shop.

I certainly am one for keeping and revering old stuff, heck I just restored a 1968 D40, however, newer cars are safer, quieter and much more reliable, but certainly don't have the mojo of an old car. For a pure mode of transportation, I'll take a new car. For fun, style, and a hobby, yeah, I get it.

With respect, my friend, you're missing the single most important point, as Br1ck said:
"Everything on the car needs rebuilding, and it's so simple that you can."

That market of simply maintaining everyday vehicles that are already paid off and thereby maximizing the value of the asset is huge compared to the "hobby" and restoration of collectibles ("mojo") market.

And repair costs can be absurd to the point of "not being worth it":

'07 Mercury Milan, 147kmi, excellent mechanical condition, only previous "major" work was replacing a power steering pump switch at 111k, never failed a smog check.

Airbag light went on about the same time there were finally parts available for the recall, but it was the passenger seat occupancy sensor that had gone out, not covered by recall. (My passenger eat has been occupied about five times in ten years.)

$1500.00 fix at dealer, and not much less at an independant shop due to the non-generic part (which is basically a whole f--king new seat) and the PITA of calibrating after installation.

Who's gonna do that for a car with a $3500.00 book value at retail?

Who's gonna buy a car with the airbag light lit?

It's gonna go to a salvage yard, which offends my sense of true economy and environmental friendliness.

Same reason I can't justify buying a guitar that will never truly be "worth" re-fretting.

Nor will I buy dress shoes that can't be re-soled.

 

[Opsimath]

Older vehicles are great. You can drive with the windows down and the air pressure difference does not try to pop your eardrums so if AC is on the blink, roll down the windows and keep driving. Not so with newer ones. Drown in sweat or pop your eardrums, your choice. What I miss most are vent windows. Those little triangle shaped ones that you could position so the air blows right on you, or away from you. And bumpers of real chrome! What's wrong with car designers these days? They are taking away all the good stuff.

 

[chazmo]

I think the old cars vs. new cars discussion is colored deeply with individual nostalgia and personal taste. "Replace" is not an option since there's no such thing as a "new" one. You either fix or move along. And the price of old cars can be a very big motivator to "fix" or restore. For example take a look at late '60s or early '70s muscle cars. Those things are now super valuable to collectors. I wouldn't have gone near one of those back in my youth. They were terrible then, and they're terrible now, unless you drive in striaght lines.

I don't think this comparison of old vs. new translates very well to guitars.

 

[richardp69]

Personally, I think it seldom makes financial sense to invest in a neck reset. That being said, I tend to do it often and I do it for one of a couple reasons.

1.) I love the guitar and don't mind investing money I likely will never recover

2.) I'm going to sell the guitar and feel it will be an easier sell if the "dreaded" neck reset issue is resolved. I think that typically, you won't get your money back but it will make it easier to sell and likely will get you more than if you just sell it as is.

Obviously, a lot depends on the value and desirability of the guitar in question. I'd never invest reset money in a lower end guitar (unless it's one I love like my D 25 currently at Tom Jacob's shop). I'd rather just sell it dirt cheap or give it to a kid/organization who could make use of the instrument as is.

 

[chazmo]

^ Well said, Richard! That pretty much covers it for me too. You buy/sell a lot more guitars than I do, but essentially we follow the same approach.

 

[Br1ck]

Here is the typical scenario at a local shop. A guy walks in with a 74 D 28. It needs frets and a neck reset. The shop quotes $1000, the typical rate here. The owner balks, decides to buy a new one. The shop offers $1000 in trade. The shop fixes it working around their regular repair flow. They then sell the guitar for $2800-3200. There are often two or three in the vintage room at any one time, and on the tag, it says recent shop neck reset. The shop makes a tidy profit, the buyer gets a solid worry free vintage instrument. Everyone is happy.

The other scenario is the guy has his treasured guitar he got for graduation fixed and he goes home happy. The only loser is the guy who thought he got a craigslist deal and finds out how much his flipper buy is going to cost him.

An addendum to the MG story. My son in law, an engineer by trade, has adopted the Midget as his non silicon valley problem solving hobby. He recently reworked the distributor and replaced the needles in the SU carbs. I took it on a three hour drive into the Santa Cruz mountains yesterday. What a blast I had. You really feel the temperature change when you hit shade. You really know you are driving a vintage vehicle. The improvement in the ignition and carb tuning was remarkable. We make a pretty good team, as he'd never experienced a points type distributor. Nor had he ever adjusted valves. But one thing you need to accept. Every drive is an adventure of wondering if you are going to get back under power or not. But I have the money to get towed home and the time to wait for it. They really are not so bad as that, but the possibility is still there. I never have a doubt in my 200,000 mile Honda CRV.

With an old guitar, I don't worry about it folding up.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

A 70's Martin D-35 is still worth about $2500.00.
Well worth getting one in need of a neck re-set for around $2000.00.

Martin D-35 1970 - 1984 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

 

[valleyguy]

A 70's Martin D-35 is still worth about $2500.00.
Well worth getting one in need of a neck re-set for around $2000.00.

Martin D-35 1970 - 1984 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

True enough, but some of those 70s Martin’s had some other serious issues. Not their best period, from what I hear. That said I had a 70s D18 for several years that I had no issues with, though I was not as knowledgeable about guitars in those days as I am now.

 

[Westerly Wood]

I won’t put a dime more into the Br. Cause I have already put way too much into it for a $225 guitar new in 1971. Lol.

That being said, it has a wonderful tone and I have gotten a lot of compliments about it from musicians and non-musicians alike.