Re-wiring a Starfire III for more tonality?

[richly harmonic]

Hi Fellow Guilders and Guildites,

I'm sure this question may have been asked before in some distant past, but would anybody know if and how it's possible to re-wire a Starfire III to be more tonally versatile?

With the mini-humbuckers, would I be able to create both a Series and Parallel mode switching? If not, what else could I do to achieve this?
Or is it better just to do coil tapping instead? Is it even possible to do coil tapping with Guild mini hums? (then why are Filtertrons tap-able?)

If this wiring is not possible, what other ways could one accomplish more tone options in the Starfire (besides Volume and Tone knob controls, of course).

Anyone can chime in or provide their own experience on this? (Ex. Coil-tapping, series or parallel wiring, use push-pull volume/tone pots? Use rotary 5-position knob-switch?)

Note: I've read somewhere that due to the design of Guild mini-hums, creating a series or out-of-phase series wiring would cause a short because the mini hums use the metal covers, and should any loose wiring hit the inside of the pickup, it will cause a sudden "silence" or some such weird thing like that, which could get pretty annoying. I'm not sure if i remember this correctly, but there was something "downside" about this scenario.

Don't know where I read it on the web. Perhaps I'm mixing some information with other information, which is quite easy to do these days on the Web.:confusion:

All helpful replies and/or experiences much appreciated.:friendly_wink:


--RH

 

[jcwu]

creating a series or out-of-phase series wiring would cause a short because the mini hums use the metal covers, and should any loose wiring hit the inside of the pickup, it will cause a sudden "silence" or some such weird thing like that

Hey, think of it as a kill switch!

 

[GAD]

I can't answer your question directly, but the comment about the pickups "using the covers" strikes me as odd.

All pickups "use the covers" (if covers are installed), as the covers are grounded to the case with solder. Ground is part of every circuit. Usually a coil tap is done by shunting one of the coils to ground, thus removing it from the circuit.

The phase switch common on older Guilds reverses the polarity of the bridge pickup. These pickups have three leads. I've never seen a modern pickup with this configuration, but that doesn't mean anything other than I've not witnessed one.

What will determine if the pickups can be split is the presence (or lack) of four wires coming from the pickup vs. only two. Vintage pickups just had a two-conductor lead, which was the signal wire and the ground shield. Modern pickups often have four distinct wires (two from each coil) that allow for a variety of interesting options.

If your pickups have only two wires, you'll need to replace them to get more options of this type. Technically you could open up the pickups and mess with them, but I would never recommend that unless you're in the business of working on pickups. The internal wires are tiny and don't take well to abuse.

Now, you could also add switches or knobs that connect to a variety of filter capacitors that alter the tone, but I've never been terribly happy with this solution. This is the type of solution found with the Gretsch "Mud" switch, or the Varitone knob on the Gibson ES-345.

HTH, and apologies if I got anything wrong. It's 1am and I should be in bed.

Oh, and the far easier solution would be to add a pedal.

 

[mad dog]

Being able to have series and parallel in the middle p/u position is a great idea with single coil p/us (such as on the Baja tele). Series might be overwhelming with minihumbuckers.
MD

 

[richly harmonic]

jcwu, GAD, and mad dog; thanks for the prompt replies. So far, it seems that there are wiring possibilities with the Starfire, on the other hand, for as rich sounding the Starfire already is, having three positions of tone, as well as the ability to balance the two pickups (during middle position mode), it's no wonder the Starfire is already a tone monster as it is!

Again, I was just thinking the possibilities, but looks like the negative consequences outweigh the unnecessary mods.

...On the other hand I've wondered how does a Starfire III (hollow) or IV (semi-hollow) hold its own against a modern RIC 330 (w/ hi-gain pickups)?
Which guitar has the most twang and jangle factor? I've recently got a GAS for a RIC 330, but that GAS may soon pass and I'll be set on the SFIII once more.

 

[richly harmonic]

Anybody can help me ease the GAS, in the moment? LOL!

 

[GAD]

I don't have much experience with the new Starfires, but the 70s-90s Starfires I've owned were not what I'd call "Jangly". The mini hums have different tone than the large HB1s I'm used to, though.

For "jangly" I'd probably go with single coils or TV-Jones pickups.

 

[Zelja]

The phase switch common on older Guilds reverses the polarity of the bridge pickup. These pickups have three leads.

Strictly speaking I don't think that's quite right. The bridge pickups generally have 3 terminal lugs and 3 wires coming from the lugs to the control circuit but they still only have 2 wires going from the terminal lugs to the pickup coils themselves. Semantics maybe but...

...On the other hand I've wondered how does a Starfire III (hollow) or IV (semi-hollow) hold its own against a modern RIC 330 (w/ hi-gain pickups)?
Which guitar has the most twang and jangle factor? I've recently got a GAS for a RIC 330, but that GAS may soon pass and I'll be set on the SFIII once more.

I've had a Ric 330 with HiGains & I would say that these Rics don't do "twang". I reckon that an SFIII or SFIV with minihums would have more twang, oomph & probably jangle than the Ric (when using an individual pickup alone on the Ric, more about that later). An SFIII with Dearmonds would kill it in that respect. The Starfires with the larger size HB-1s (70s & onwards I guess) are different beasts and don't have that twang though are great for other things.

The Ric HiGain pickups are a bit strange. They have a pretty high wound but seem to have a strange magnet setup - it doesn't seem to be a solid magnet but rather some rubbery substance infused with magnetic particles. I think that makes for a weaker pickup than if it had a solid magnet - maybe less snap & attack as a result.

The key to the Rics jangle for me is the rather strange wiring with the 5th knob. On my guitar there was a cap in series with the bridge pickup which made the bridge pickup very thin on it's own (& rather useless) as the cap doesn't allow the lows to pass through (I think this was omitted in later years). The 5th little "mix" knob was actually wired in series with the neck volume pot - effectively two volume pots stacked one on top of the other. The greatest variation came in the middle position using the mix knob. With the knob down at zero you effectively had the high passed bridge pickup in parallel with the neck pickup at half volume giving you a thin, bright sound. As you turned the mix knob up you were adding more of the neck pickup and were gradually making the sound fuller. With the cap on the bridge pickup removed the variation possible in the middle position was reduced but the bridge pickup on its own was far more useful (bigger sounding).

 

[richly harmonic]

Thank you for that, Zelja. That helped eased the GAS. I'm wondering if the chambered maple body lends the Rickenbacker it's own sound, as well? Either way, I feel more focused on the SF III again. Just listening to "Laugh Laugh (live shindig)" again, and can't help but love that "twangle" plus "snarl".

 

[GAD]

Strictly speaking I don't think that's quite right. The bridge pickups generally have 3 terminal lugs and 3 wires coming from the lugs to the control circuit but they still only have 2 wires going from the terminal lugs to the pickup coils themselves. Semantics maybe but...

Yeah, "leads" wasn't the right term.