Question about serial numbers/date of manufacture - 60's Starfire II

[kdevine]

Hi folks,
I recently purchased a 60s-era Starfire II from a music shop via Reverb. It's had a fair share of mods - refin, new bridge, new tuners, etc - but is a real beauty - looks and plays great. The music shop told me they thought it was likely a '67 (not sure what they based this on). That said, the Guild label inside looks partially removed and/or painted over - so there is no serial # there. Also, there is no visible serial number on the back of the headstock. I thought the combo of missing label and no serial # on headstock was odd -- made me wonder if the instrument might have been stolen sometime in it's 55 year lifetime, and label/serial #s were removed (? sanded from headstock).

Given all that, I have a question for the experts here. Did Guild always emboss serial #s on the back of the headstock for these 60's era Starfires? This is my first Guild electric -- all my Guild acoustic guitars have the embossed serial # on headstock, w/the exception of an early 60s Mark IV nylon string guitar. Also, is there any other way to determine year of manufacture for this Starfire.

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[Default]

Pics would help a lot. Click on the "attach files" button to browse to the appropriate picture. We'll have a better idea then vis what year you have.
And, welcome.

 

[fronobulax]

welcome. pics will help date it. embossed serial number on the back of the headstock, plus label would be expected for a 60's starfire. a theft in the past would explain what you see but there might be other possibilities of which a refinish comes immediately to mind.

 

[SFIV1967]

Welcome to LTG! Yes, there are quite a few ways to find out from when your guitar is, post pictures please of the unreadable label! We might be able to see something there.
Let me help you out with the pictures if you don't mind.
First of all, she looks beautiful!
The pickups are original, the pickup rings not, tailpiece is original and switch and awitch knob are original. The bridge is not original. Knobs are not, tuners are not, binding is not (I guess she got a new binding when she was refinished). Beautiful sapele wood! (laminate in case you wonder, you see how they sanded through the top layer on the bass side f-hole). The pickup cavities might still show the original color (most probably cherry red at that time).
The russ rod cover is mounted upside down.
The pickguard is missing.

Looks like she had Grover Statites originally:

Also she has no volute yet, so no volute and Grover Statites means more like a 1965 one!


Ralf

 

[kdevine]

You guys are quick! And awesome. Thanks for the help. Yes, the photos that Ralf has posted above (from Reverb) are the Starfire II in question. I've attached a picture of what's left of the label. With a little tweaking of the new bridge, this guitar plays like a dream.

 

[SFIV1967]

That label is a tough one, like there is gaffer tape over it. What do you feel that silver strip is? Tape? Paint?
Anything visible (shining through) when you shine a strong flashlight on it?

You still see some script below, like the word "GUITARS".

The "MADE IN USA" stamp was also on other 1965s:

Ralf

 

[geoguy]

Very cool looking guitar, congrats.

It looks like the s/n was scribbled over with a ballpoint pen, before the silver paint (?) was applied.

Ralf is good, but this case may require Inspector Columbo!

 

[SFIV1967]

It looks like the s/n was scribbled over with a ballpoint pen, before the silver paint (?) was applied.

Not sure that's the case.

EDIT: OH! Now I see what you saw! Well, that could be the case...

Ralf

 

[geoguy]

I thought it looked dented, in a scribbling pattern, given the pattern of shiny vs not-so-shiny spots.

 

[walrus]

Is it worth it to ask why? Usually the serial number on the back of the headstock being "scratched out" means the guitar may be stolen. But I'm not sure I've ever seen the label serial number so purposefully covered up. I have no idea, just wondering why someone would do this....

I love the guitar BTW, and I'm guessing it plays and sounds great!

walrus

 

[kdevine]

The gray strip is most definitely paint - and quite thick. I shined a bright light on it and still couldn't see anything legible under the paint. I'm guessing someone tried to peel the label off, and when it ripped they painted over the SS#. Also, upon closer examination, I can feel a subtle difference in thickness at the top of the headstock where the serial # would be stamped, suggesting that someone sanded off the SS# (to their credit, this was done quite well). All this points to a previous theft and obvious efforts to conceal the guitar's identity. I'm guessing this occurred some time ago, as the paint covering the SS# appears aged, as does the refin.

A gentleman named Hans contacted me off this string, indicating the guitar dates back to 1965, consistent w/Ralf's post above. Thanks again for all the feedback/interest. I'm sad to think that someone had their beautiful guitar stolen at some point - hopefully karma has worked things out for both the previous owner and the thief.

BTW - this forum is awesome. I can't believe I only recently stumbled onto it. Being a Rhode Island native, I've had a fetish for Guild guitars dating back to high school in the mid 80s, when I owned my first (Pilot bass). Glad to find so many like-minded folks.

Kevin

 

[GAD]

The gray strip is most definitely paint - and quite thick. I shined a bright light on it and still couldn't see anything legible under the paint. I'm guessing someone tried to peel the label off, and when it ripped they painted over the SS#. Also, upon closer examination, I can feel a subtle difference in thickness at the top of the headstock where the serial # would be stamped, suggesting that someone sanded off the SS# (to their credit, this was done quite well). All this points to a previous theft and obvious efforts to conceal the guitar's identity. I'm guessing this occurred some time ago, as the paint covering the SS# appears aged, as does the refin.

A gentleman named Hans contacted me off this string, indicating the guitar dates back to 1965, consistent w/Ralf's post above. Thanks again for all the feedback/interest. I'm sad to think that someone had their beautiful guitar stolen at some point - hopefully karma has worked things out for both the previous owner and the thief.

BTW - this forum is awesome. I can't believe I only recently stumbled onto it. Being a Rhode Island native, I've had a fetish for Guild guitars dating back to high school in the mid 80s, when I owned my first (Pilot bass). Glad to find so many like-minded folks.

Kevin

That gentleman named Hans is THE expert on Guilds and wrote this book: https://www.amazon.com/Guild-Guitar-Book-Hans-Moust/dp/0634009664. Hans is the top of the food chain when it comes to Guilds!