Looking for thoughts & advice on late 50s & 60s archtops?

[Zelja]

Interested in getting a fully hollow archtop from this era - the models I'm looking at ( in order of body thickness ) are the Starfire III (& II) & the T-100D, then the CE-100D & then the X-175. What are their differences, similiarites, characteristics etc compared to each other? What styles/sounds are they best suited to? What is the effect of the different body thicknesses?

I haven't got too much experience with fully hollow archtops so looking for as much guidance/info as possible.

Also, looking for a similar critique of the Franz, Dearmond & mini-HBs which were installed in these guitars. How do these compare, what are their characteristics & do they suit one guitar model more than others etc? Any thoughts are appreciated.
Cheers, Z.

 

[Walter Broes]

My experience is that the bigger bodies have a lot more low end - my Starfire III with DeArmonds doesn't fill up as much sonic space as my '62 X175 with Franz pickups, which is not necessarily a bad thing, depending on your needs.

In my own band, I love the X175, but I'm not competing with another guitar, or keyboards. I've tried to use it in bigger bands, but I prefer the Starfire or my telecaster usually, the 175 is a little too big and mellow sounding for my taste in twin guitar or guitar/keyboard settings.

Kinda hard to describe all the differences.

 

[jimmyl51]

You want to read Han's book..........everything that you need to know in regards to your questions is in his book! Good luck, jim in Maine

 

[Walter Broes]

Yes, get Hans' book, by all means.

 

[Zelja]

Cheers guys. I have got the book & it details certain things (Florentine cutaway on the CE-100D, the different thicknesses etc) but I don't think it really gives opinions on tonal differences/characteristics etc & that's what I'm really looking for.

Walter, I get what you are saying about the thicker bodies having more bass & maybe not cutting through in the mix like a thinner archtop or solid body. Would a thicker body also have less attack?

Any opinions or favourites with regard to the 3 diffferent pickup types mentioned - Franz/Dearmond/mini-HBs?

 

[Walter Broes]

Well, for the big archtops they are, my X175's don't lack cut or attack, they're fairly bright sounding even for a traditional archtop, no lack of treble and twang, it's just that the Starfire has even more of it. Part of that is the DeArmond pickups in the Starfire of course, they're very agressive, bright, midrangey pickups.
And a big, deep body guitar usually has more bass, mine certainly do, but I guess that's just basic physics. They do acoustically, and that translates to the electric sound too.

My personal favorites are the Franz pickups, but it's all a matter of taste, what you want to do/hear, and what kind of music you want to play on them. One guy's perfect guitar is another guy's total nightmare.

This clip is my '61 DeArmond-equipped Starfire (on the lead pickup) : http://youtu.be/_9-R5tItRWI

This is my '62 X175 with Franz pickups, on the lead pickup as well : http://youtu.be/zFDyPPbmtq0 For lack of better description, to my ears, the Franz pickups are a little bluesier, not as immediate and percussive as the DeArmonds. I wish I had a clear clip of the X175's rhythm pickup, because I think it sounds glorious. The DeArmonds have more of an early Gretsch, almost fat telecaster thing going on, the Franz pickups are a lot more like a P90, but still brighter and twangier than the average Gibson.

Humbuckers - I'm not a big humbucker fan, but I can say those small Guild humbuckers are brighter than a typical Gibson humbucker, and fairly agressive sounding as well.

 

[Ravon]

Hey Walter, I've got a couple of questions regarding your great tone. What kinda strings are you using? Are you running straight to the amp? What are your amps and what are the controls set at? Thats four questions but since I was askin' already Thanks

 

[Walter Broes]

Hey Walter, I've got a couple of questions regarding your great tone. What kinda strings are you using? Are you running straight to the amp? What are your amps and what are the controls set at? Thats four questions but since I was askin' already Thanks

Hey Ravon, thanks for the "great"!

What kinda strings are you using?
A set of Fender 150R (pure nickel 10's), only I change out the high B and E strings for a 14 and an 11, instead of the standard 13 and 10 that come in the set.

Are you running straight to the amp?
No. In the first clip, with the Starfire, I'm not using my own amp, it was a fly-in gig, so I used the provided backline. It's a bone stock Fender 59 Reissue Bassman, with one of these :

In the second clip, with the X175, I'm using my own gear, and what I use 99% of the time. I have one of these (click) between the guitar and amp.

What are your amps and what are the controls set at?
First clip is not my amp, like I said. I'm plugged into the normal channel because the bright channel on a stock RI bassman can kill small animals, it's so bright, and I have the bass around 2-3, Mid around 4, treble somewhere between 3 and 4.

The second clip is my own amp that I dearly love. It's a clone of a late 50's Fender tweed 3X10 Bandmaster, from the now discontinued "blue lamp" series by "Headstrong amps".
It's been modified with a late 60's Fender Super Reverb output transformer (much larger than the stock one), one of the stock Weber 10A125 speakers has been replaced by a Jensen Neo Tornado speaker for more volume before breakup and tight bass and projection, and it has TAD 6L6 output tubes, and NOS Philips 5751 and 12AX7 preamp tubes, and a Soviet era 5U4 Rectifier tube. I plug into the bright channel on this amp, because it's beautiful sounding, and usually set the bass around halfway up, treble, volume, and presence slightly below that.

And yes, I get more than a little anal about gear..

 

[Ravon]

Obviously your getting most of that luscious tone mainly from your playing but having some nice accessories and knowing how to use them can be icing. Thanks Walter

 

[Zelja]

Thanks for the further info & clips Walter, great playing as always.

It seems the Dearmonds were on the Starfires & the CE-100Ds & X175s had the Franz pickups before the change to mini-hums. Don't know if the Dearmond or Franz pickups were ever on the same model for a proper comparison of what each pickup brings to the table?

I do like the tight, firm bottom end, almost piano like, which you can get from good strong single coil pickups. The only decent mini-hums I're tried (Zhangbucker mini-PAFs) seem to have that similiar feel to them, especially compared to standard buckers, but I have no experience with the Guild minis.

I already have a Hamer Newport (fully hollow, spruce over mahogany, Bigsby & SD Phat Cat pickups) which is probably pretty close to a SFIII. It would make sense to go for something a bit different from that so the X175 with Franz PUs would be the go I guess. There is a '63 CE-100D with the minis I'm looking at which is tempting - birth year for me so easier to justify, but I did love the sound of the Franz equipped X-175. As Ravon says, that's a lot to do with the player though!