Laminated Rosewood back & sides?

[archiestone]

Am considering a Taylor 214CE since there is a decent deal on a gently used one locally.
Have not played it yet though. Before I do, what should I expect from rw lam?
All my other 'premium' acoustics have solid b&s, I just think this one might be fun to have as a backup and all-around strummer.

 

[taabru45]

Best way to find out how you like it is to play it...I've even played a Guild or two that didn't do much for me...Steffan

 

[evenkeel]

The solid vs lam thing can get a bit murky. My D2R Martin is lam rosewood back and sides. It was hanging in a shop next to a D28 and it was very tough to tell the difference. I think of it as a poor mans D28. Very stable, holds it's tune, sounds great amplified. 90% of the time it's the guitar I take out to play. It was pretty cheap so I don't worry (to much) about wacking it around in bars :!: :wink: :!:

 

[Brad Little]

The debate over how much back and sides contribute to the sound of a guitar is not new by any means. In fact, to prove his point that it was negligible, Antonio Torres (the father of the modern classical guitar design) built a guitar using papier-mache for the back and sides. I don't believe there was any consensus on its sound, but some supposedly said it sounded as good as any of his solid wood guitars. The instrument does still "exist in the Museu de la Musica in Barcelona, unfortunately it is no longer playable." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Torres_Jurado)
But, the bottom line is always going to be the ear of the player and listener, so see if you can try it or one like it.
Brad

 

[cjd-player]

Just be sure to tell Jerry if you buy it. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[taabru45]

Just be sure to tell Jerry if you buy it. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

He likes them.........................they're easy to light.. :lol: Steffan

 

[tjmangum]

I believe I have read that the Oskar Teller guitar that Mason Williams wrote and performed Classical Gas on has laminated back and sides. I have a Tacoma parlor in Koa that has laminated sides (and maybe back - it's an early one) that sounds wonderful. Have to remember, it's the top that does most of the work.
tj

 

[evenkeel]

Have to remember, it's the top that does most of the work.
tj

To prove that point the famous Taylor pallet wood guitar.

 

[Dadaist]

As has been voiced previously, what the guitar sounds like to you, should be the deciding factor. One of my favorite guitars, presently, is a Burbinga Baby Taylor,.... laminated sides and back....a guitar that was my constant companion out on the Road for years.

One of the challenges with a "laminated", which is just a nice euphemism for "plywood," guitar was that it carried the worst connotation in the past for guitar construction. My first guitar was an ancient Stella, one made by Harmony in the late 1930s. The entire guitar was laminated, back, sides and top.

It's a marvel that I stayed with the instrument as the action, as was common with cheap guitars in the early '60s, was uncomfortably high to a point that playing it for more than ten minutes left you sore, playing for more than an hour left your fingers cut and bleeding. But it was my guitar and to my ears it sounded wonderful. The only saving grace to the experience, was that when I received a "real" guitar in this case a '43 Gibson LG2 six months later, my fingers flew over the frets.

To put things in an interesting perspective in regards to laminated vs. solid, I have a 1977 F50 that was damaged. When I brought it to my luthier for evaluation, his first comment was that the sides were laminated, something I hadn't noticed before. On closer inspection, you could see how the wood had fractured separating the maple veneer. Here we have what can be considered one of the best sounding Guilds that doesn't have solid sides or back and considering that this was one of the most expensive Guilds of the time, it wasn't done to cut costs.

Here's a shot of it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dadaisimo/ ... otostream/

David

 

[JimbowF212]

If you are interested a local shop has one of the solid sapele B&S 214. I played it and it is decent and I may consider it but, I look at it this way. I can tell the difference between lam B&S and solid. I have a guitar with a lam top, and it is absolutely duller sounding then a solid top so I figure if lam tops make a difference then lam B&S by default have to. I have never bought into the hype of the B&S make no difference in tone it has to contribute to the tone and projection or they wouldn't make guitars with them and we could all afford guitars today and the prices wouldn't be so high. If the top has to vibrate freely to create sound then it figures that the B&S should as well and everyone knows that solid wood vibrates better then Lam. JMO FWIW.

 

[AlohaJoe]

A lam done right may sound fine. That said, I think that on the sides and back the difference in the volume of the fundamental may be minor but there can be a big difference in the quality and quantity of the overtones produced. High-end solid tone woods in the thicknesses needed for guitar backs & sides can be very expensive, but worth it for those who can hear the difference. Laminates are cheaper, with a very thin but pretty wood on the outside and generally do a decent job... the difference is probably negated anyway when you play with the back snugged up against your body, since you're dampening the back. It all comes down to the budget.

The difference on an acoustic archtop is a different game altogether.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I have a Blueridge BR-43 that has laminated sides and back.
It is a great sounding guitar.
I am a believer that very little sound from a guitar is attributed to the back or sides.
Bracing will make a much bigger difference.

If I remember correctly, there is a Guild model or two out there that has a laminated back.

Taylor has some very nice sounding guitars with laminated sides and backs.
Well worth the asking price. Used prices will be even better.

 

[poser]

My understanding is that the back and sides function to reflect the sound, that's why they are usually made of dense wood. The laminate tends to absorb a little bit more of the of the vibrations, thus damping down the sound a bit more than solid wood. I'm no expert, that's just what I've read. I doubt that I could hear a difference.

 

[kostask]

It really depends on the laminate used. There are high quality laminates, with all layers being hardwood, that can make very good guitars. There are poor quality laminates in which the inner layers are made of something other than solid hardwoods, and they can, and have, sounded awful. There are some "legendary" guitars that have always been made with laminates (the backs and sides of the original Selmer "gypsy jazz" guitars are laminates), and there are even currently made laminated guitars with a good reputation (Godiin's Seagull, Norman, and Art&Lutherie series guitars); they do use the high quality laminates, though, so they aren't as cheap as the guitars using the lower quality laminates.

The Godin laminates are two outer layers of wild cherry, with an inner layer of poplar. For their thickness, I'd be willing to bet that these laminates are more reflective than any solid tonewood, being that the layers are all cross grain, so there is no flexing, and there is no damping. either. What laminates do not do is have a "personality", in other words, the coloring of the sound that allows us to differentiate a mahogany guitar from a rosewood guitar.

Kostas

 

[tele4tone]

But...... It's not a Guild :lol:

Jeff

 

[kostask]

The backs on arched back Guilds are laminated, so this applies to Guild. Guild also used a high quality, three hardwood laminate.

Kostas